The Power of Inner Work When Teacher Guilt Creeps In With Mark Guay

*Trigger Warning: This episode touches on the topic of suicide and its impact.

Has teacher guilt been holding you back? Today’s guest shares how he was able to deal with the guilt when he stepped away from the classroom.

Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with Mark Guay, a former high school English teacher for 10 years,who has transitioned to coaching business leaders. Together, they’ll tackle navigating teacher guilt while switching careers, the profound impact students can have on a teacher, and the power of doing the inner work to become the person you want to be!

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Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/

Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/

Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog

Transcript

Ali  0:06  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids, but sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible. Questioning, who am I,if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Allie Simon,

JoDee  0:29  
and I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:32  
and this is Teacher Shift. 

JoDee  0:43  
Growth means change, and sometimes change leads to another path. Today's guest gets candid with us about teacher guilt and the power of inner work. 

Ali  0:55  
Today, our guest is Mark Guay. He coaches business leading dads through the intersection of leadership and inner work, helping them shape the systems we live in and create a world where their children can truly thrive. You won't be surprised to learn that he's also a former teacher of 10 years. Welcome to the show today, Mark.

Mark  1:15  
Hey. So great to be here with you all. Thank you, Ali and JoDee, for having me on. 

JoDee  1:20  
We just learned that you had been teaching for 10 years. And I really love to hear that, because we know that our audience can really feel connected to those teachers that have been in it for a while. Do you want to tell them, you know what you taught? 

Mark  1:33  
Sure, yeah, I taught high school, English, 10th and 12th grade honors and non honors, you know. But what's interesting is what I when I look back and what did I really teach? Is I taught communication. You know, a lot of the curriculum that I designed was around, how do I help students identify who they are, what they care about, you know, and why it's important in the world, and then help them communicate that through a project or through a talk. And that's, that's the skill that I now, looking back, realize I focused on. 

JoDee  2:06  
Communication has been the biggest theme in my life for like, the last month, because I have really been honing in on communicating with others around me and on projects that I've been on. And I really think that the only way I've been able to sustain what I've been going through right now is because of being a teacher, because of all of the, all of those skills I built. Mostly communicating with people that communicate ways and how to really streamline that to get to our end goal. So I have to say that when I was a teacher, it really built out my communication skills.

Mark  2:46  
A lot of times I get asked in my work now, Hey, how did you learn that? Where did you learn that? Like I noticed that you did this, you know? And give you an example. I'm at Paramount+ in Times Square, working with the senior vice presidents, and we're doing some training. And the way in which I approached it, later on, someone said, How did you learn to like that was really good. What was your training in that? And I said, be honest with you, what I saw in that was a flashback to a grade that I taught, and the leaders there were kind of acting that way, and I just distinctly remember I kind of dropped into what did I learn through that experience in my journey. If you want to learn, how do you communicate effectively where people actually listen to you. And how do you motivate people to do what you want them to do without still arming them, because that doesn't work. Try teaching. Because you're in a hostile environment, where they have to be there and they will tell you if you suck or not, and that is such good training for the world outside of education, because you're not going to get that outside of education. You're not going to get a contract, or you're not going to get, you know, a type of change that you want to see in your clients, and you might not know why, because they're not as honest, they're not as candid. High schoolers, they're honest. They're candid. And that is amazing feedback, right?

Ali  4:18  
I also taught high school. I taught high school Spanish, you know, ninth through, mostly 11th graders. And yes, they are so honest with you about everything. And I really do think it teaches you so much about who you are and really like the world from their eyes. I mean, it just, it is a great foundation. I talk about this a lot in the show, teaching is a great first career. It really can give you such an amazing skill set that goes into so many other disciplines outside of the classroom. And I think that's really what we're excited to hear about from you, is, is how you, you knew that you were looking to transition from teaching, and you noted that you were looking for that career growth.  So can you tell us a little bit about that desire to move forward and how it was met with one of the most common bumps in the road, guilt? How did you manage that internal disagreement between certainty and a guilty conscience?

Mark  5:15  
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. So I, you know, I ask that you maybe poke and prod a little bit and kind of pull back the nuance of my answer here, because there's a lot in that. I knew a few years into teaching that there's no way I can do this for 20 years. It was amazing. I love, I love working with kids. I love facilitating. I love teaching. But I I knew that the the classroom, because growth is such a key value of mine, I knew that I would get burned out if I continued that. And I made a decision early on in my life that I wasn't going to just work a job for the illusion of safety. And I had seen many people who had made that choice and sacrifice themselves to be burned out and lost in what are supposed to be the happy years of retirement. And so I knew that early on, but I didn't know what that would look like. And I grew up, you know, in a paycheck to paycheck family on food stamps, and so I wanted to make sure I was making smart choices financially. And so I say that because, as I was continuing to teach, it took me a while to actually retire from teaching. And if I'm being really honest, what had me send the retirement letter, the resignation, was because my wife was really sick and we had to move. And the relocation forced me to say, I have to leave this job because I couldn't bring the job. And so that was the constraint that got me to resign. But years before that, what I started to do was I didn't like that... And why I got into education was I see education as a system that needs an incredible overhaul, which I'm assuming is likely a common thread here on the show. And so I came into it going, Hey, I want to make sure that what my kids, my students, are learning, is applicable to the challenges that they're going to be facing in their lives and their careers. And so after I kind of, you know, went through the first three years of, Wow, this is hard, right? And I finally started to feel like, okay, I know what I'm doing. I'm not coming home with a major headache every day, like I'm actually achieving some sort of balance. I started to look outside of education with the idea of let me bring it back into classroom. So I started a podcast. I would go to conferences, and I would reach out to them and say, Hey, I'm a teacher. It's really important to me to know that the skills I'm teaching my students connect to the real world, even though it's very vague term, can I come to your conference? And you know, these very expensive conferences where you would have keynote speakers, and it was like $2,500 a ticket, they would say, yeah, come on in. I was shocked and so grateful. And I was able to go, you know, and and so I was able to go to these conferences in Boston, in New York and San Diego, and I then started the podcast, because I wanted to interview the people that were on the TED Talks that my students were watching, that were writing the books that were on the New York Times bestseller list for business and personal development. And I would bring what I learned from them, from those interviews, I would bring that back into the projects I would have my students do. How did I do answering your question?

Ali  8:46  
You did great. I think you really are just sharing with us, like what your perspective was as an educator, like why you got into it you wanted to make those bigger connections. And ultimately, I think it's really for a lot of educators that leave the classroom. Unfortunately, it does take something big like that to happen to actually maybe, like, for me, it was like, I felt like I had like, the permission, or like, the like, the perfect like time to say, like, Okay. Like, I've been thinking about this for a while, but now is the time. Because something big happened in my life. We had a... we had a really scary, like, a health scare for our daughter, who was two at the time, and that made me rethink everything. And I was like, I was like, reprioritized our whole lives. And I'm like, we were stretched thin. Who was going to be at the hospital with her? Like, these are things parents shouldn't have to decide. it should just be easy. Like, my daughter is overnight at the hospital. That's where I'm going to be. I'm not worried about my lesson. My lesson plan for tomorrow. That shouldn't be my worry. So, yeah, I think, like, it's great to have that lead up to that moment and to hear what you were thinking. If there's anything else you feel like you left out, like, please do.

Mark  9:55  
There's one element. And for me, you know, when I did resign, it was like, I put in 10 years. Like I felt like, Okay, I did enough, where I felt like I, I really did my best to influence the system. You know, I was not okay with just just teaching. And I don't mean that teaching alone is not enough. It certainly is. But for me, I needed to feel like I was doing my best to change the system, and I was going to, you know, try to bring healthy lunches into the school system. And I really got to understand how the public school food economy works. And I did a lot. And I realized it didn't feel very efficient with the change I wanted to affect in this life. And so I I knew at that point, okay, I put in 10 years. It's it's okay to do this now. The guilt was pretty heavy, though. And I want to mention that because for me, and there's a lot of emotion around this, but for me, when I resigned, it was half year, mid year, and one of my students, who was a problem kid, and I had a lot of those boys come to my classroom, and I played a father role for him.

JoDee  11:04  
I wanted to just say to the audience that he was putting up air quotes on problem.

Mark  11:09  
Thank you. Yeah, no. Kid didn't have a father. Kid had a broken home. Very common story, and for you know a lot of kids, and he needed healthy attachment figures to model what it is to be a healthy man in this life. And the guilt came from when I resigned six months later, two weeks after high school graduation, he suicided. And that hit me really hard, really hard. And it got me to realize, like, wow, these kids, are really going through a lot. And that lives with me, like, I that's still there. You can see the tears in my eyes, like that's still very present. But the way in which I've translated that is that was really helpful for me. It was actually it turned into fuel. And it's why I work with men, why I've created a lot of projects and courses. Specifically, I speak a lot about my journey as a man. And I work with fathers a lot, because  it was a necessary thing that happened that got me to realize this is important, and there's a role that I can play.

JoDee  12:25  
Well, I'm so sorry to hear about your former student. You definitely struck a nerve in Ali and I. We're both very emotional right now. I too have lost a student, and I've been in a situation where we thought we were going to lose a student. Where, you know, the grandmother was calling me every day and saying, like, we're getting ready to say goodbye, ended up being a miracle. But those life instances when you work with children, or, I mean, really, anybody that you really care about, loss is big and it's heavy, and it lives with you for your life. It stays with you, those memories, those feelings. You learn to cope with it. You learn to find power in your grief, to do things like you who harness those deep feelings and say, I'm going to do something with this to make sure that that doesn't happen again. That we can prevent things like this. So we know that people find other purposes in life. They start out as teachers, and then through that journey of meeting people or building skills, they they find a new a new path. And this is a real important path that you're on. And one of the things that I wanted to really touch on was this part of your work where you you do, like the inner work. That you help those with that inner work, because we know that, like externally, there are things that we can really tactilely, like fix and help, but those inner things are tough. It takes a lot of tough work. It takes openness. And teachers pour into others. They pour, pour, pour. And oftentimes don't have that time or energy to really give it to themselves. So what kind of work do you do to help people find that time and that energy to work on that inner self?

Mark  14:29  
Yeah, that's a tough question, because it does need to come from the, in my world, you know, I work with men. It does need to come from the man. I have. A lot of women reach out to me and say, this would be great for my husband. I want my husband to do that. This is, you know, I'm like, Yeah, introduce me to them. It needs to come from them, and it often doesn't. So first step is awareness. If they're aware, that there's an opportunity out here to work through these challenges I'm having. And when these challenges I'm talking about is, you know, I work with high profile these, you know, men that are ringing the bell on Wall Street. They've won the game in terms of, you know, the career and the money and all that. And they're all of a sudden realizing I'm going through a tough time right now. Like, wait a second, you know? And we can go deeper into what that means. But there often needs to be some sort of pain point or moment that says to them, I need to do this work now. And that's either a partner that talks about divorce, or it's I'm losing a job, or it's, you know, an addiction that eventually turns to something. There often needs to be something that smacks the man in the face and goes, Hey, you gotta pay attention to this stuff you've been avoiding for a long time. 

Ali  15:47  
Yeah, and I was, you know, I was thinking about it, because we've been really conscious of the fact that teaching is a female dominated profession, but there are men in education. And, you know, you were one of them. Looking at, you know from the holistically, like the male perspective and the stereotypes, and then also like the stigmas that exist, it's very different than for females. And so I'm really appreciative that you, you really called that out, and you said, like, they have to be willing to get the help. And we've had guests on before to talk about counseling and therapy and things like that. And again, when you talk about, like, couples counseling, you have to have two people who want to be there. It has to be both, like, if it's a opposite sex couple, like, you have to have the husband also want to come to that. And so I think it's really important that they need to have that internal desire to change or to get help, but that it's something that I think as a society like we are still trying to figure out how we can make it less of a barrier, or, you know, there's a lot of pressure, I think, that we don't really see that men have, that you brought awareness to today already. 

Mark  16:59  
Thanks for sharing that. And I didn't know that that that's where this conversation was going to go, but it has, and I appreciate it very much. I want to mention something that when I look at the infinite game of my career, it's beyond the identity of a teacher, and it's more of how can I help others self actualize, and, by extension, help myself further self actualize. There's not an end game to that. There's constant evolution of what it means to you know, develop as a human and why. One thing that I have really loved since leaving the education world as a teacher is leaving childhood development and entering into adult development. And the work of like Robert Keegan and Bill Plotkin to name, you know, just two. Joanna Macy to name another. People that are really advancing, Ken Wilber, another to really advancing what it means to evolve as a human. And what I have really learned is that we are a very underdeveloped culture right now, extremely. There's a lot of aspects of our wholeness, of what it means to be a healthy and mature adult that are removed systematically through our cultural norms. And one of them is what we're talking about here, which is for boys and girls, all humans you know, whoever you identify to be able to really honor their unique thread in the tapestry of this human experience.

JoDee  18:27  
To add on to what you're saying, to really kind of like contextualize it a little bit more for our listeners. Can you tell them what self actualization is? What does that mean?

Mark  18:39  
Yeah, sure. I intentionally use that term because I was thinking teachers Maslow. That's kind of a name that most people will go to, but if there's so much to it, right? But it's kind of this notion of, like, essentially stepping into your, you know, in my, in my marketing language, I would say stepping into your power and purpose and profit in this life, right? But what does it really mean is like, how can you really bring your greatest gifts to the world. Who are you? Like, really? Who are you? How can you dial that up to 10 and be you at 10, and then also extend that out, and you know, be that in the world. Like that is self actualization, and that is a beautiful journey that never ends. It's a lifelong experience, right? You constantly learn about who you are in this world and how much there is to experience, and you know, and then you die, and that's the game right now. So that's what I mean by self actualization. And I think that's what, from my philosophy, if we're going to go, you know, pedagogical philosophy here, my philosophy is that that's what we're all meant to do as humans is to really uncover who are we, how can we really honor our strengths, relate with other humans, and bring our gifts into the world that leaves the world better when we die. And that's a challenge and a journey on itself.

JoDee  19:54  
You know what's funny is that I have this conversation a lot with parents who can't figure out how to get involved in the school system. And a lot of times, they are reinventing ways to be involved that are outside of their strengths. And so as I talk to them, they're like, oh, maybe we could do this, maybe we could do that, or maybe I could do that. And I'm like, Who are you? What are your strengths? What is something that you possess that no one else may have that skill in. Like, hone in on that and see what you can do with that. So you're not reinventing yourself and you're stressed and you're feeling these anxious feelings because you're you're exercising something that's not really true to who you are. Like, I'm all for learning new skills and things, but, like, if you're a working parent and you're trying to, you know, get involved in something that's just out of the goodness of your heart, like, let's see what you possess that we could use. And I've seen parents say, You know what, I'm an artist. I think I could help with, you know, painting backdrops at the musical. I'm a fundraiser. I think I could go help ask for money for the annual fund. I'm good at just people telling me what to do. You know, so it's funny, because, you know, just in the whole education world, sometimes, you know, teachers have those struggles, but also parents and just humans in general, they struggle with those things.

Mark  21:24  
Well, yeah, on that from my perspective. Now, I didn't know this when I was a teacher, but my understanding now is that the two developmental tasks that most people don't achieve and we certainly don't achieve systematically in the education system is helping one understand who are they, beyond the conditioning they were raised in. And then having that person held and supported and held high in a community of people that honor that authenticity. And those two key developmental tasks are a lifelong journey for most people, that most people don't achieve because they're very challenging in the world that we live in now. And that's not the end game. There's even more that you can do. But those two core tasks are, if I can go back and say, like, here's what education should do, you know, like, that's what I would say it should do, is really help one understand who are they beyond the conditioning. What are their values? What are their strengths? How can they apply that to better the, you know, the collective of the human species and the communities and systems we live in? And then help them really find the group that supports that. Because that's amazing. And that's what I've come to realize we're really after. And when I look at schools now, and I see these kids trying to fit into these different identities, what they're really searching for is, who am I and who are my people? And that, you know, is a challenging journey, and the closer we get to that, the closer we feel that sense of fulfillment that a lot of us are really hungry for. Teachers too, by the way. You know, and it's a challenge. I was talking the other day to a teacher, a couple that taught for their entire career. They taught for 30 years. And we were talking about how, you know, I was saying how, when I was 22 I had a student who was 20. He had a thicker beard than me. I'm on the phone. His father's a state trooper. His father goes to me... we're on the phone. His father never met me. His father goes to me, Hey, Mr. Guay, would you offer me some fatherly advice? What should I do with my son? Should I, you know, have him repeat another year? Or what do you think I should do? And so I deepened my voice. I go, Well, my, you know, from my perspective, and I offered this, like, what I thought would be, I think it was good advice overall. It was, I don't think another year would really be helpful for him. I think he needs to get out into the real world, outside of it. I think he needs to experience the pressure. He was also selling drugs to kids. And so I knew, I knew that, and so it was very real. He needed to get out. But I had to, sort of like project this, like I have it all together at 22 because this 50 year old father had identified me as a teacher, and therefore older and more mature and wiser, when the truth was I was 22. I was, you know, just out of the diapers of college, trying to figure this whole thing out, right? And it creates this, for teachers, it forces you into a faux maturity that I think is actually detrimental, because you haven't figured it all out. No one's figured it all out, but you certainly haven't figured it all at 22. And that's okay. You don't need to. And that pressure that a lot of teachers have to not only know their content, but to be the, you know, the star example of what it means to be a human that's a, that's a lot of pressure to hold, you know what I mean? 

JoDee  24:50  
Yeah, I'm gonna say one thing, and then I know Ali is, like itching to ask you something. So just on the topic of that, is that that's part of, kind of this unwritten responsibility that we give teachers. We go to school and we learned about pedagogy. We learned about tools. We learned about closing the achievement gap. We learned about all these ways to educate kids academically. We learn about behavior management. And we are kind of given this responsibility of helping kids with these internal things, to help parents make decisions about their kids, but we're not really equipped with that. We learn it through time. But like when you're a young professional starting your career, you don't have all of that. No one at that age has all of that wisdom, and so you're right. Like, sometimes we do kind of put this on on teachers to say, help me make this decision. And it sounds like you gave some solid advice, but like, we do have to remember they're not the answers to everything. They can't possess all of that. We are just like you. And that we we we hone in on this profession that we have trained for, that we are passionate about, but we still have our own work to do, and we still have our own and life experience, like 22 we still have a full life of experience to go. So Ali, go ahead, take it away.

Mark  26:16  
Well, can I just say one one sentence on that real quick? That's the same pressure that I see with the 60 year old executive, you know? Literally the other day, guy who you would not expect to say this, he goes, who am I? I don't know who I am. I'm trying to figure that out, you know. And again, rang the bell on Wall Street. Made tons of money, big name in his career, in his field, and he's opening up for the first time, going like, I'm sick of pretending, like,  you know, let's get real here. And he opened up a lot, and that's really helpful, and that's a pressure we project for a long time, and it's, it's unhelpful.

Ali  26:55  
So I do have a really great question, but and also, in all of this conversation, have some thoughts. So when I transitioned from teaching, I moved into Grants Management and did a lot of work on apprenticeship, and now I work on career and technical education. And I do think what you're talking about, what you wanted to do in your classroom, about, you know, connecting skills to the real world to the classroom, figuring out who you are. That is something that's growing, but it's slow. Like the project that I'm working on now, there's, you know, the career advising model is, like, very individualized, like to talk about the strengths with students, to see what they're interested in, to give them those real life opportunities, like you were suggesting for that student, that 20 year old student. Like, we only know what we're given to learn in school, what we see from our parents, what we see from people in our community in terms of, like careers and professions and like these expectations that we're going to do one of those things. But there's so much out there. There's like endless possibilities. There's new jobs being created every single day. And so I really do hope that that catches up sooner rather than later, because I always feel like in education, everything's like 10 to 15 years behind what it should be. But I do want to say from the work that I'm doing now, I'm seeing some promising things. So I loved that you were already on that tracks, you know, way before, you know, way before now. And there's people in that field that are that are doing that work and that have been doing that work. But I agree with you completely that getting good grades and doing what everyone tells you to do, like, that's not going to make you, like, your most authentic self. That's going to not going to allow you to develop into like, a whole person that really feels connected to themselves in the world. So that hit me a lot, and then I'm just like, I'm also just blown by the fact that you said at 22 like, you know, you had to, like, grow up really quickly. I'm questioning all my life choices now, because I was like you. I was 22 teaching 18 year olds, you know, getting all these tough questions. I'm like, Man, did I grow up too fast? Is that why I got married so young? Like, I'm just like, over here, like, thinking about, I just, like, this is an engaging conversation. But I do want to circle back to the question that JoDee, you know, alluded to, and it's that we're thinking about the teachers who are listening to the podcast right now. It's October, soon to be November. We know that there's teachers that are uncertain about their career. Maybe they're feeling what you shared like, who am I like? What do I want to do? Is this really my purpose? Like they're experiencing these big feelings. They might have some career disorientation. And I'm, I'm asking you, as a former teacher, not necessarily with your coach hat on, you know, what would you say to them to feel seen and to really tap into that experience of of considering a transition and what's next?

Mark  29:43  
Great question. I would say, you know, and this is going back to my younger self too, is lean into 1% or 10% max, you know? We, we sort of live in this paradigm where it's like, take the leap, go all in, go big, or go home. And I don't think that's actually helpful. I would say, find your core values, lean into them and say, like, what is a, you know, you call it a side project, to use simple terms here. Like, really focus in on that. What's another skill you want to hone? For me, it was the podcast that brought me into having conversations with people that were well beyond anything I've I've had before, and so that led me from one conversation to another to then a training, and then eventually someone said, Can you coach me? And I was like, I can get paid for this? Okay. Really. I swear to God, that was my first client as an executive coach. A former executive at Apple who worked with Jobs, was like, Can you coach me? Like, what? What do you mean? I don't know what you mean. What do you want? I'm a triathlon coach. What am I going to coach you on? And she goes, Oh, your purpose. You're really good at nailing down purpose and articulating a purpose into actionable steps. And I go, Sure, how's $700'? Sounds good. Great. I had no idea what I was doing in terms of the business side, but what she helped me realize was I actually knew exactly what to do for the workshop and to coach her. And it was great.

JoDee  31:11  
Isn't that such, like a teacher skills? Like, here we have something, do something with it.

Mark  31:16  
Yeah, I could do it.

Ali  31:19  
I also want to say, like, we've been chatting with you for about 30 ish minutes, and like, I see why someone asked you to coach them. Like you, you connect with people very fast. You are your authentic self. Like, you're not scared to like, have some vulnerability, which I think that person probably saw in you, like, you know this, this ability to connect with people. It's not that easy. And frankly, like a lot of the coaches that I see, I'm like, no distract like they're women, and it's nice to have a male coach. I think if you, if you are a male. Just like my preference might be to see a female physician. It's nice to be able to have those, those opportunities. And you jumped on that. And I think that that's amazing to hear that someone gave you this opportunity. You took them up on it. And now look, this is what you're doing. This is, this is your teacher shift, right?

Mark  32:10  
Yeah, yeah. You want to know something funny. What's, what's funny about that is my mom. My father passed away, my mom, who's still alive, she has no clue what I do. And anytime I try to explain it to her, she's like, Oh, so you got a job? And I'm like, I don't know how to artic I have, I, you know, I have an interview. I said I had a podcast interview. She goes, Oh, what's the job for? Like, no, it's a podcast interview. You know? It's like, it's so beyond the worldview that my mother's generation, who's now baby boomers, grew up in. Yeah, it's just it doesn't make sense. 

JoDee  32:41  
I get the same question a lot. Like, what do you mean? Like, I don't really... do you have benefits? Because I have my own company, so it's like, but what about the benefits and and then explaining, it's too much.

Mark  32:53  
Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot, but it to go with what Ali you said earlier, these jobs are the way in which we create this economy is a co creative experience that is changing every year, particularly with AI now. You know, there's new skills that are being needed. There's, there's so much out there, and how can we expect a system to prepare kids for that when it's changing nearly every year? Like that is, that's, that's a losing game right there. You're not going to, you know, be able to vocationally set them up for that, but how to navigate that is what we can do. And, yeah, it's interesting. And I'm really excited to hear from your listeners, too. And I want to just say it was really scary, and sometimes it's still really scary. I don't want to project this image like I have it all figured out with my business, with my work. Like there's still some years where I'm like, Oh, I made less money than last year. That feels weird. That's not how it's supposed to go, you know. But it always ends up great. I always end up looking back going, Wow, I'm really glad I did that. But sometimes when I'm in it, you know, it can feel pretty heavy. And so I just want to say that to the teacher that's out there is, like, have some self compassion for yourself and navigating this journey. And if transitioning from teaching is the path for you, it will present itself in a way that will feel right.

Ali  34:14  
Thank you for that. I think that's a great way to close out. I did want to also thank you for your 10 years of service as an educator. I think a lot of times, you know, we we feel guilty because we left after seven years, 10 years, 15 years, but those years were really valuable, and you did change a lot of lives during that time. So thank you so much for your time today on the show, for your time in the classroom. And I'm really excited for our listeners to listen to this episode. If you want to connect with Mark, you can find him at Mark W Guay. We're going to link that in the show notes along with his website. Thank you again, Mark.

Mark  34:49  
Appreciate you both. Thank you so much.

Ali  34:59  
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me. Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original music: Emoji by Tubebackr.