Teacher Shift
Here at Teacher Shift, hosts Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors unpack one of the toughest questions educators face when considering a career shift - Who am I if I’m not a teacher?
Teacher Shift podcast shares resources for educators who need help with job exploration, identity, wellness, financial planning, and decision-making. We invite teachers, former teachers, people that love to hire teachers, mental health professionals, resume coaches, scholars, and financial planners to share experiences and guidance with educators that need or are considering a shift.
Teacher Shift
How to Strengthen Your Personal Relationships With Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh
Is work life impacting your personal relationships? Today’s guest shares how you can strengthen your relationships through the ups and downs of kids and work.
Today, Ali and JoDee chat with returning guest, Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh. Dr. Cavanagh is a psychologist and marriage expert. Together, they’ll discuss ways to improve communication, strategies to find a healthy balance between home and careers, and the importance of support systems in marriage.
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Episode Transcriptions
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Ali 0:06
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids, but sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible, questioning, who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.
JoDee 0:29
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:32
And this is Teacher Shift.
JoDee 0:33
Teachers have a knack for building relationships in the classroom, but sometimes work life can impact personal relationships. Today's guest shares healthy ways to strengthen marriages as busy parents and teachers.
Ali 0:58
Today, our guest is Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh. Dr. Cavanagh is a psychologist and marriage expert who is passionate about helping busy parents have stronger marriages. She founded her practice, Married After Kids, to help teach the tools it takes to have a good marriage while dealing with the systemic stress that children place on your marriage. Welcome to the show today, Lindsay. And should I say, welcome to the show again.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 1:25
Yay. I know I'm so happy to be back.
Ali 1:28
Yeah, this is great.
JoDee 1:30
She's tuning in from Japan, which that's our our first interview in Japan. And for our listeners, at 7am right now, which is like our first time doing this. If I happen to have morning voice, got my little cappuccino to help me with that.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 1:46
Yes, thank you guys for getting up so early for me.
Ali 1:49
It's worth it. We're so happy to have you back on for another episode and really to dive into something deeper, in terms of... we talk to teachers a lot. And we know that one of the biggest things that changes when you're a teacher and your roles and responsibilities is when you become a parent, because you know all that time that you might have dedicated to your school, to your profession, you have a little person, or little people that you're now responsible for, and so you kind of have a choice to make about how you're going to spend your time. And it can really put a strain, not only on your the way you feel personally, but I can say, from experience, definitely on your marriage too. You have decisions to make, and we all have a finite amount of time. So I'm just going to dive in here and ask you the first question, which is, can you discuss some of the common relationship challenges that married couples with children face, especially when one or both partners are juggling demanding careers like teaching?
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 2:51
Yeah, so first, let me just say that there was a study that came out that said 27% of moms after they have a child like their job doesn't change. What that means is that 73% of moms, their job, at least to some degree, changes. When you look at dads, 90% everything stays the same. So you have 73% of women who are absolutely changing everything about their life after they have kids, and you have only 10% of dads. And so already you have this miscommunication, or you just have very different experiences, right? Like, I didn't know that my entire life was going to change, and he didn't know that his wasn't and mine was so, like, he doesn't know what to look for and how to support me. I don't know how to tell him, because I'm still trying to figure out what the heck is going on. And then I think when it comes to jobs like this, even that, right? Like, I didn't know, I mean, my job completely switched after I had kids. I needed to be more flexible. I needed to. And so I think that was what it was like. My whole life changed, and his didn't, and all of a sudden, like, how do you work together in those situations? You know?
Ali 4:21
That is feels like my life. I mean, I think that, you know, I was a teacher when I had my first child, and I didn't have the flexibility to really change my job. Like, when you're a teacher, your job is x. You can maybe offload some of those extras that you do, like in the afternoon, after school is over, but your primary job role and responsibility, which is, you know, being with students all day, planning lessons, grading papers, doing your professional development that's required, like those things, they don't change. And so to hear you share that like you know, 73% of women have a change in their job role. I really felt like, as a teacher, like I couldn't change that much about my constraints in terms of, like, my work day and my workload, besides getting rid of those extras. JoDee, what about you?
JoDee 5:12
I feel like I'm having so many connections right now. When it comes to just challenges, I can really recall some of the like relationship challenges when I was in the classroom, because we talk about this a lot like I gave so much during that window of time that at the end of the day, my work was spilling over into hours where, you know, it's like unpaid hours, extra time, and by the time I was getting home, I was just, like, mentally so tired that it reduced the amount of like communication I was, you know, exhibiting within my relationship, but also just, I feel like I gave my all, and I really had, like, nothing left. And that really, you know, grew a lot with age, because I know that my like, 22 year old self was much more energetic and resilient than, you know, my 35 year old self when I was teaching. And so that really, like impacts your relationship. Also not just like with my spouse, but with my child. Like there were some times when I would pick her up and I just was so tired that I could barely even, like, muster up words sometimes. And I know through years of working on relationships, is that communication is such a big factor in the success of relationships. So I don't know, like in demanding careers, like, how do you overcome those barriers, and how do you improve communication in order to improve relationships? Because at the end of the day, like, relationships are everything.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 7:01
Yeah, I agree. That's why I work with relationships, because I feel like they are the number one predictor for how happy you are and how like well resourced. I am in probably one of, like, the most stressful situations. My oldest just broke her leg. My youngest is recovering from... right? We're just doing all of this stuff. And if I was also fighting with my spouse, it would be so much harder. So when it comes to communication, the thing that I really think about the most when it comes to this stuff is that things that are so obvious to us. Like things that for me, it's like, how could you not know that I'm drowning here? How could you not, right? Like it's just so obvious. It isn't always obvious to somebody else. And that's usually what I say, is you have to the things that are inside your head just have to be said out loud. No matter how you know, insignificant or significant they may seem. So if you thinking, Oh, I like that shirt on you, like you're saying that out loud. If you're thinking like I am drowning and I don't know what to do about it, you are saying that out loud. But you're not assuming that your spouse ever understands exactly what is going on, unless you've said the words and unless you've had conversations around it. I can tell you so many times that people have had arguments because they assume, Oh, my spouse doesn't care, and that's why XYZ thing isn't happening. And the reality is is they either don't know how to you know what is going on, or they don't know what their spouse actually needs to be able to give it to them. So my thing is always just like, err on the side of giving too much information.
Ali 8:42
Yeah, I think, you know, it's hard because in a relationship, and this is, I think what I'm most guilty of, and I hope it's not turning into like a therapy session, but you're like, you feel like, maybe your spouse should see how you're tired at the end of the day, and how you're burnt out, and how you don't have the same energy or, you know, and then it's like, I think that's my the biggest challenge is, like, we think in our head maybe that, like, they should just know, or they should just be able to see. But what I'm hearing from you, and what I've also heard from therapy and, you know, things like that, is that you really have to be clear. You have to actually say what you need. If you don't communicate that, then you cannot assume that the person will just know what you need.
JoDee 9:05
I just wanted to add like. I think it's okay that people should be given the grace to learn those skills too. Like sometimes we learn behaviors and we we have this line of communication that has just something that we've known our whole lives, and we should give ourselves a chance to work on those things and not be like ashamed, but be open to learning these new lines of communication and these new like behaviors and practices. Because it's okay to not know everything all the time, and there's always just room for improvement.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 10:07
Well, and it's also recognizing that each of you are going to mess up. You're going to say the wrong thing. You're going to hurt each other at points. And I think that I I always say, if you can maintain a really strong marriage mindset. So, mine personally is that my spouse cares about me no matter what, even if I'm not feeling it in this moment. And if I'm attacking every situation, even times where it feels like he doesn't care, or even when it feels that he is doing something to intentionally hurt me. I I make myself go back to that. Because instead of now me sitting in that feeling of, he doesn't care, and that feels so bad, and you know, I'm going to the Okay, what is getting in the way here? How do I get us out of this quicker, right? Like that, stopping those thoughts from going too far, because they're going to happen. You're going to have them. And how do you speak to those in a way that's just like you said, that gives you both some grace? That gives you both some kindness. And then that helps you just to get back on track so much quicker.
Ali 11:13
Yeah, no. I think that's really well said. And the other thing is that it's not going to be, like from my experience, the change isn't going to be perfect overnight. And so I think letting yourself like, giving yourself and your partner that grace, to like, to try your best and to know that it's relationships are complicated. Work stress is real. And it, you know, changes the way that we feel. It changes the way that like... the thing I know I'm guilty of is like my tone, like I might be saying the right words,
JoDee 11:41
I have to agree with the tone. I don't know your I don't know your tone, but like when, when it comes to those situations. But I know that I have a command tone that's like a teacher tone. And I'm like, I really did not it was really unnecessary for me to sound like that. But it's like, so ingrained in me, you know, that I'm like, Okay, I don't need to say these directions this way, because there's not 28 kids in front of me. There's just one person in front of me.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 12:11
It can sometimes feel like 28 kids though, like, let's be honest, right? Like, there's a reason you snap into that, and it doesn't always mean that it's going to be right, the best thing to happen there. I think that as humans, we do not like transition. Our bodies don't like them. Our brains don't like them. They are uncomfortable, and we want to get to a state of comfort as quickly as possible. And so even if we are the one making the transition, our spouses feel that too, and they feel that in us. And I think the other thing that can come up during these periods of transition is, you know, feeling like your spouse doesn't support you. Or, you know, if they have questions, if they have fears, if they have remarks. And I think just recognizing that that's the nature of transitions, and if we can instead have just some good conversation around that, instead of making it into something like you don't care or you don't support me. Because I find so often that isn't the case, but they're sort of freaking out in the same way that that we're freaking out. You know?
JoDee 13:21
I just wanted to add something about the transition things. So you, you said, our bodies don't like transition. So we're we talk about teacherships, and I can definitely attest to the fact that, like, I had a physical reaction to this kind of transition that I was going through from like career to career, or identity to new identity. And so I think a lot of our guests exhibit those same kind of symptoms, bodily symptoms, when they are feeling like they're not in the right place anymore. That their life, the way that their life is moving through time is not fitting in this box of this profession. And so sometimes we reject those, and we we kind of like, you know, exhibit habits of not acknowledging them. And sometimes they come out in really, really powerful ways. And I think that when I had, when I was going through that, like during the day, it was really bottled up and at night and in the mornings, and on Sunday nights at home, it was like it was really, really powerful. And like it was on my face, it was on my feelings. It was, you know, like buried in my pillow.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 14:38
Well, and your spouse probably had no idea how to help you in that either, right? Like you probably didn't know what exactly was going to help you in that moment. And I think that's the thing, is that it's okay to not know. And how do you like be a team through that too? So you're not doing that alone.
Ali 14:57
Right, and I'm kind of thinking about so I know. With, like our kids, or with children in general, that a lot of times when they're struggling with something, like the person that they take it out on the most is like their primary caregiver. A lot of times it's the mom. Because that's really their safe person, right? That's the person that they can have a total meltdown with, or they can break down, or they can show who they really are. And I guess I'm wondering, Is that similar with our relationship with our partner? Like, I find sometimes, like, I want them to be that person that's like, I'm in a total event. And like, get everything off my chest too, because they care about me. And like, I can just complain about my job. Then there's also, like, a balance of, well, there's only so much that you want to hear about someone you know complaining about their job, feeling a certain way. And so I'm just kind of wondering if there's maybe some strategies that you could recommend for couples to maintain, like a healthy balance between their careers and getting support from one another as also being parents, because that's another kind of part of their lives as well.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 16:03
I think the number one thing that you really have to think about is that you are always or you always need to be respectful, loving and kind first. So you may be having all of the emotions. You may be, you know, as as mad is everything is that, you know whatever emotion it is you're experiencing, but when you are communicating with your spouse, there always needs to be a level of respect and always a level of love. And I think that they even show the happiest marriages report this, like in their worst of arguments, when they're the most mad at each other, like that is the thing that is still present. And so just because you have this person. Kids are different, right? Like, they don't have that capability yet to, like, hold that in and think about how they're doing it and how it comes out. And so that's where you do get, like, the onslaught from kids. But as as adults now, with our spouses, we can't let them be a punching bag. So I think that opening up to each other and all of the things that that entails, I think, is, is always good. I don't think I ever would want to put like a limit on that, as long as it is done in a very respectful and very kind way. And then intentionally putting in like fun moments, you know, like moments where maybe you're not talking about it. But still, I think it's that desire to just be that team that's always good. And what do you need to do to do that right? You need to treat each other with that respect in order for that to happen.
JoDee 17:38
I love that just starting with kindness is always a really and respect like a really good approach, because in the end, like you would want to be approached in the same way. And then it got me thinking about something that a few years ago, my husband and I started doing. We started being really intentional about having isolated days or hours together that were our days. That were like "couple" days. And they're things that we enjoy doing together, whether it's like trying a new restaurant or going to a cocktail place, or going on a hike or something. Like, there's something really romantic and special about just carving out something that's just for you. And it reminds me of the early days of our relationship. when, I mean, we met an undergrad, so we're, like, one of those couples that's been together for a really long time. So, like, it reminds me of the early days of just us, and I remember a time when we were thinking about having a family, and I remember thinking, like, how could I ever share him with anybody? You know, that's my man. That's my guy. And then eventually, you know, you have a kid, and all of a sudden, like, your like mind just automatically changes, and you don't even know. And you have to kind of be like, Okay, I have to get back and understand, like, where we were, where we are now, and how does this work now, as a family of three?
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 19:17
100%. I also tell people it's eally the intentionality of it. So there might be people who can't plan a whole day or even, like a date night, and I say it doesn't have to be a lot. Can you intentionally give each other five minutes each night where you are not talking about, like what needs to happen the next day, but you're just connecting in whatever way. And I think just learning that you can have those intentional moments, and they don't have to be long. And then when you do get the long ones, like how exciting they are and how much you know how important they are. But when it comes to being parents, kids are gonna naturally pull that priority. You don't even have to think about it. You don't have to try, like, it's just going to naturally happen. Even careers kind of naturally. This naturally happens. You're going to the house you got, you're going to do laundry, you're going to, like, all of that stuff just naturally happens to your relationship. Isn't something that naturally will happen. It will fall down the list if we don't intentionally give it that time and give it that space. So, I mean, that's really what you're talking about, and it's why it feels so good. And there's also that even excitement that you know it's coming, you know, even if it's like not for another you know, 10 days away, you know that you have that to look forward to together.
Ali 20:36
No, that's really good advice, and I think you have to be intentional about that time, right? Because I agree, like, when I've had to list my priorities, you know, the kids, career, household, like, yes, your relationship is not it should be. It should be equal to with a lot of those. But ultimately, like we have, I guess, we have a natural instinct. And then we also have the reality of, like, we have to have a roof over our head. We have to have certain things.
JoDee 21:06
So think about, like, how intentional teachers are with their relationships at school. So like, think about like a student who just needs extra attention, who need you need to build a relationship, like, all of a sudden you're like, having lunch with them, like you've carved out, you know, like you invited them to lunch with you or something. Like, it's not like, we don't exhibit those kind of behaviors anyways, but like, how do you how do you do that intentionality, not in the workplace, but like, with your everyday relationships?
Ali 21:33
So this has been such an amazing conversation, I kind of have one big last question for you. I want to know what role support systems, and I'm going to kind of bucket these as two things. One could be like extended family, friends, you know, community resources and then therapy as another one. What roles do those support systems play in helping couples navigate the challenges of both parenting and demanding careers?
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 22:01
Yeah, I mean, I really think that it, you know, it's the it takes a village kind of thing. I really think that, you know, everything has a place, and for each person and each relationship, this is going to look a little bit different, right? And so, but overall, what I would say is, when you look at things like family, friends, that sort of thing. I think it's really looking at maybe I have that friend, you know, before I know that I can be kind to my spouse, that I need to go and vent to and say all of the things in, like, the mean way that I need to say them, like, before I actually take it to my spouse, right? Or maybe you have kind of the people that you do some date nights with and... right like, there's a lot of that kind of thing. I think the friends are and family are the ones that really just sort of help you day to day. And I think that this can come with just even parenting and that sort of thing. I think we're the expert so therapists, that sort of thing really come in is if you're wanting to make change, like, these are the ones that have the tools to do that. So I always say, like, your friend is going to be the great person to just vent, to get all of that stuff off, and then you can go and do it in a different way. If you don't know how to do it in a different way, and you don't know how to get out of it or change it or make any sort of improvements in it. That's when you need the expert. That's when the expert can come in and actually, like, get you on the right path, that can give you the tools that you need, that can, you know, turn the ship, so to speak, so that you are feeling better. And unfortunately, I just find that too many people wait until, you know, things are really, really, really, really bad before they even consider it. Whereas I think it should really be something like, are you, you know, we should learn the tools before we even get married. That's a whole other thing that we could be talking about. But you know, if you don't have those tools, like, there is not you don't need to wait until things are really bad to get those tools. But that's really how I look at it. You have just kind of the people around you that kind of keep your ship floating. And then you have the expert that can really help you steer the ship to get to where you want to go.
Ali 24:16
And it sounds like those two work in unison, like you're going to need the friends. And then if you have the expert that also will help. But those are all your support systems that you can have. I'm going to add one last question, because I do feel like this comes up a lot with couples counseling. How do you get your partner to buy in? Let's say you are in a position where you you feel like you would benefit from couples counseling. Hopefully you're not at that like, tipping point where things are really that bad and you proactively just, you want to have a strong marriage. You want to stay married, you know, for the rest of your life. How do you get them to buy in? Like, what would you say to them?
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 24:52
And what I would say to you is that not everyone is ready to get that support at the same time. There is a lot of unfortunately, like things that get in the way of people wanting to. You have kind of biases. You have social stigmas. You have so many things that can get in the way of somebody actually saying, Yes, I am ready to talk to somebody else. And so now you have two people in a partnership. So to get both of those people on the same page, at the same time to go and do something like that, it can be really hard. And so what I would actually implore is that instead of waiting like figure out what you can do. Figure out how you can start to change things in the way that you need to see them change until your spouse is ready to do it. So instead of putting that pressure, instead of forcing them to maybe go when they're not necessarily ready. And what I find is when they start to see the change, they're more likely to want to participate, because it feels good. And so it's kind of why I, like, I have a one sided method because of that. Like, I don't want people to have to wait until both people are ready to participate. I think a marriage is like a circle, and we work off of each other. And so you change one side of the circle and the other side, like, has no choice but to change as well, and so really just focusing on how you can initiate the change and know that you can still see a lot of results without even your partner being ready.
JoDee 26:31
I love that advice, because you're not just focused on why they don't want to do it and trying to figure out, like, uncover those reasons. You're focused on you. What's within your control? And we talk about that a lot too, is like, what can we control in this moment to then hopefully open up other opportunities?
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 26:54
Absolutely
Ali 26:55
Yes, and JoDee and I were regular followers of Dr. Cavanagh social media. So we're gonna shout out at married after kids. She posts such amazing nuggets and information. You can also check out her website, married after kids. Really just thank you so much for your time today, Lindsay. We love having you on the show. And we hope our listeners can learn some good tips about being married with kids and you know, having careers with kids.
Dr. Lindsay Cavanagh 27:22
I love y'all show. Thank you so much for having me. I think it's just such a great resource for everybody. So thank you so much.
Ali 27:37
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift, being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple, podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original music: Emoji by Tubebackr.