Teacher Shift

How Taking a Chance on Yourself Can Payoff With Eboni Walker

• Ali Simon & JoDee Scissors • Episode 94

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How do you know when the right time is to make a shift? Today, listen in as a former kindergarten teacher shares how she took a gamble on herself using the skills she acquired in the classroom.

In this episode, Ali and JoDee sit down with Eboni Walker, a former educator and lead educational consultant of Learning Matters Early Childhood Consulting, LLC. Together, they’ll discuss what technical assistance is, how teaching kindergarten prepared her for a career outside the classroom, and why having a backup plan isn’t a bad idea!

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Episode Transcriptions
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Ali  0:06  
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning, who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.

JoDee  0:29  
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.

Ali  0:32  
And this is Teacher Shift.

JoDee  0:43  
How do you know if a shift is right for you? Sometimes it's about taking a chance. And other times, it's about addressing your immediate career needs. Today, we chat with a former kindergarten teacher who took a chance on herself, knowing the skills she built in the classroom with set her up for success.

Ali  1:03  
Eboni Walker is the lead educational consultant of Learning Matters Early Childhood Consulting, LLC. Her consultancy specializes in crafting leadership preparation and development solutions for those who desire to lead an early learning settings. Prior to this role, Eboni was a founding executive director of a charter school childcare center and educator in New Orleans, Louisiana. Welcome to the show today. Eboni. 

Eboni  1:31  
Hi Ali. Thanks for having me. 

Ali  1:33  
Yes, and I'm so excited that you get to meet JoDee too. It's just really an awesome experience for us both to have you on the podcast.

Eboni  1:41  
 I am excited to be here. 

JoDee  1:43  
Eboni, it's so nice to meet you. I actually had to New Orleans on Sunday. I'm there about quarterly and I couldn't remember Ali if Eboni I have met in person or not? 

Ali  1:55  
No.

JoDee  1:56  
I've looked at your LinkedIn profile so many times. And I was like, come to the point where I'm like, Have I met her in person? Or is it just this virtual version of you that I know?

Ali  2:06  
Yeah. So Eboni wears a similar title that I do of soccer mom. And so that's how we met. It's one of my favorite titles. I think she would probably agree to. So that's how we know each other. And again, like once you meet someone, you know that they were an education that just there's just that instant connection. And I'm really interested in diving into, you know, what led you to make a shift out of the traditional classroom and you know, leadership roles that you held within educational institutions to go into the shift that you made. So can you tell us what, what the signs or circumstances were that led you to that shift? 

Eboni  2:44  
Yes, so I had been teaching for almost seven years at the time, and I was looking for something more in my career. And so, I had a variety of ideas. One was to start a family based childcare center out of my home at the time. I was teaching in Montgomery County in Maryland, and I went through the coursework to figure out what to do. And I realized that that wasn't the route at the time. And it happened that I moved from Maryland back to Louisiana, but I was looking for jobs that were not traditional classroom jobs. And so one opportunity that I saw was with a local early childhood agency, and they were looking for people to do professional development and support for preschool aged teachers in their classrooms. And because the classrooms that I was most familiar and had experience with were early childhood classrooms, pre K, kindergarten, and first grade. I thought, this could be my opportunity to kind of share more about what I've learned and to assist with publicly funded programs. And I really appreciate the examples I saw of staff development while I was in public school system. And so I think those were pieces that were encouraging me to just just try something different. I could always go back to the classroom if I needed to. But this was an opportunity. It was a natural shift, Ali, to kind of try a new lane and see and see how it feels. So I took a leap. And I have not looked back since. 

JoDee  4:37  
I love that. We've noticed many shifts have come at the time of maybe another life shift happening such as a move. And so I just wanted to make a connection with you really quick that I also was in Montgomery County teaching and I think when I reflect on my time in MCPS, I grew so much as an educator because of the quality of PD and the staff development teachers. The years I was there, the staff development teachers were amazing. They helped me expand my knowledge of pedagogy, of technological practices, whatever, language practices when I was there, and I spent maybe half of... my little less than half of my career there, and I think that, you know, you, you may agree with me that they do a really good job of training their teachers and ensuring they're prepared to be in the classroom every day. And I know, moving on to having my own business and LLC like you, that I use a lot of those skills that I built during my time there. 

Eboni  5:49  
I couldn't agree with you more, JoDee. I think you're spot on their support for teachers, particularly those that are new, or transitioning into the county from other places, which was the situation for me. There was a lot of support. There were multi levels of support. It was there was the peer base support. I mean, the systems, I think were top notch, well thought ou,t and intentional. And I found myself, to your point, utilizing similar systems and structures, when it came to leading and designing the Early Learning Center that I directed. So I would agree wholeheartedly. And it was rigorous to. There were many standards and high expectations for all children. And I think that was another thing that just kind of carried with me and was in such alignment with my philosophy and values, as an educator and a person really, truly. 

JoDee  6:50  
Of course, and you taught kindergarten. And I think anybody that teaches kindergarten can do anything. It is such a special age. Ali I don't know if you want to add on to that. But kindergarten is a really special age. And it takes a special teacher to be able to make everything happen when you have just these little people that have never had a traditional type of schooling before, all different personalities, and levels of energy, and things that they're still learning to be successful in school. And I just, I love a kindergarten teacher so much. Ali, I know that you have such a soft spot to.

Ali  7:29  
Oh yeah, I just echo what JoDee said, such a such a special place in my heart for kindergarten teachers. All early childhood teachers, honestly. Because it's so hard when you're a parent and you're leaving your child somewhere when they're when they're a lot younger. And so to be able to interest them and to feel like warm personalities like yours, because I do know you it's amazing. Because you feel like you're leaving them with like family or something like that. Because they care so much about it, at least that's been my experience. I've been able to find that type of environment for my children. 

JoDee  8:00  
Yeah, so as a kindergarten teacher, you know, were there things that you learned that helped you in your current role, or the roles that you had after you left the classroom?

Eboni  8:13  
I will say so. I've heard an adage like everything you need to learn in life he learned in kindergarten. Maybe somehow that's true. There are definitely, I think methods to, as you say, dealing with a lot of different personalities. Sometimes it feels like herding cats and being able to get everyone's attention to be able to meet everyone where they are as individuals. Being able to offer different modalities and methods of how to approach the same goal. I think are overarching things that I've definitely taken as a part of my kindergarten experience, and to make learning fun, even for adult learners, even for the people who I work with now, just really helping them to connect the dots in authentic ways. And that one thing really in early childhood, but it's true in life, is learning happens and community. Learning is a definitely a relational experience for all of us. We're social beings. And so that has to be in the mix as a core part of, of how we teach and how we design learning experiences, whether they're, they're five or 55. And so that's definitely something I've taken with me from my classroom experience as a kindergarten teacher, for sure.

JoDee  9:37  
I love that so much that that learning takes place in community. Because I think all different forms of learning whether it's even on the playground, like you're learning from each other. And that was so beautifully said. One of the things that that we love to dive into is, you said you made the shift and it was great for you like you didn't you didn't look back. Why was that shift right for you? And then and kind of in reflection upon that, why might it not be right for everybody?

Eboni  10:05  
That's a good question, Ali. I think the shift was right for me partly because of what JoDee was saying before, it aligned with a life shift. So I was moving locations, and it felt like this is the time to take the chance. Because I'm kind of starting fresh. There's a new page for me to turn. So why not give it a try? Right? There's some optimism there clearly. But I did do things along the way to kind of secure myself. So I have maintained my teacher's certification, up until maybe this past round. Like I think I finally let it go. Like, I really don't think I'm gonna go back. But I held on to it for a while as like my back pocket plan. Like if everything fails, I know, I can go and do this. And so I think that was critical. So for some, you have to assess the risk, like, are you able to do this now? Is now the right time? And, you know, are you willing to just take the risk and recognize, like, you know what, this might not work out for me right now. And I may have to go back. I think if you're willing to go back, then that's a clue that it's okay to take the step. If that makes sense at all. 

JoDee  11:19  
If it doesn't work out the first time, it might work out the next time. And as Ali says, The door's always open in education. There are always roles to fill. And if you were a good teacher, if you're a professional in this area, someone will hire you. Because we know that right now more than ever, we need good teachers in the classrooms. And if it doesn't work out this first round, go at it again, when the time is right.

Ali  11:47  
I think it's, it's really this big thing, trying to figure out what you want to do with your life. You know, you don't really know. I think we as teachers, actually, we were very fortunate that we felt usually a calling of some kind and so our first career was pretty natural for us. And we did, maybe get to experience that level of like ease of going into a profession. But I think for a lot of people, especially like college graduates, they don't even really know what they're getting into. Right? They think they want to be X, Y or Z. But if they didn't have an internship of some kind, or they didn't do work based learning, then you don't really know. And I think it's similar. When you're leaving education, it's like you do your best, even if you're staying within within education as a, you know, umbrella. And you take that chance. You take that risk. But I think you need you do need to give yourself grace, knowing that that first, you know, shift may not be the perfect fit. But it's great in your case that it did work out really well for you. And I think also acknowledging that it's smart to have a backup plan. Like it's always smart to have a backup plan. I grew up doing theater, and I didn't end up going into that professionally, but like a lot of my friends did. And they all had a backup plan. Right? Like what am I going to do on the side. And similar to you, I kept renewing my education, my teaching credentials in various places. And finally, I'm on my last one, when this one lapse in a few years, when this one times out. I've told myself, okay, if I haven't gone back to the classroom... I think I checked the date the other day, it's like, I think it's like 2030 because the Virginia extended theirs to 10 years. So I'm like, Okay, I haven't gone back by 2030. I think I can let it go. 

Eboni  11:52  
Yes, yes.

JoDee  12:08  
I haven't kept up with mine. I should probably check that. I haven't kept up with mine because really, I, I left and I haven't looked back. But I do spend a lot of time in schools. And so I think that's why I haven't really... like I've kind of found my place in schools as not an educator. So I think that's why I really haven't looked at my certification because I I've just kind of found this little niche area that I can I can be close to educators and students and still make an impact but not have that official certification. But I was also going to just say that you moved to New Orleans with this training background from MCPS. And I mean, it is such a high regarded district in the nation. And I'm certain that if anybody... like if you were to not get a job in New Orleans, someone would snatch you up so quickly because it's such a highly regarded district and they know that they create and support teachers. And I know that in the way that schools work in New Orleans, someone would definitely want to hire you based on your experience.

Eboni  14:38  
No doubt. I think everybody nationwide is is clamoring for high quality educators. And so you're right about that, JoDee. I don't think it will take very long. There's announcements flying around every day. 

JoDee  14:53  
There are. There are. So how has it been advantageous to spend time between theory and practice after this shift?

Eboni  15:03  
That is an interesting roller coaster I've been on. So teaching was like a period of time where I was in the field, because obviously prior to that I was in school. So that's all theory, right? You're, you're theoretically learning about things. And then that was my first stint of field experience. Thereafter, well, not quite there after, because I am originally from Louisiana. Everyone has a hurricane Katrina story. So I started teaching here, then was displaced. And that's how I ended up in Maryland. But between that time, I did spend a little bit of time working for the Department of Education, as a contractor. So I've had these, these small snippets and periods where I'm in the classroom or in a school, and then I spend some time outside of it. And so after being in schools, I spent some time outside of it doing professional development, which drove me back into a school as an administrator. And now I'm out of it, again, having a consultancy and doing technical assistance. And so what it has allowed me are these different perspectives and lenses from which to look at the work. Theory and research is still there, but how its applied, how it's implemented, all these things are layered by policy, by practice, by community, by culture, and by where you are in space and place in time. It's where you are. And how that reflects itself in the everyday life. And so I recognize the value of that back and forth. Because each time there's a different opportunity for me to learn. And each time there's a different piece of information or practice that I take back to the next phase. And so I've appreciated that actually, JoDee. The flexibility, but also, it helps to build my background knowledge for what is actually happening. So it makes the work more relatable on both sides.

Ali  17:05  
Yes, I think that's one of the things that I, I really value when I'm, I'm working with organizations, because the work I do is, you know, kind of connected. You said technical assistance. And I was like I do technical assistance in kind of a different bucket. But when you have organizations or products that are geared towards students, it is really important that you have individuals who have that practice, and not just that theory experience, because you need to be able to understand what it's really like. 

JoDee  17:37  
What better way to really learn a system than to get that field experience? Which is... and when we say field experience, it's just the real everyday life of an educator who is trying to make an impact on student achievement. 

Ali  17:52  
Yeah, so I'm kind of curious, because it's not that common of a term technical assistance. What kind of technical assistance do you provide in the work that you do? Just so that our listeners can understand a little bit more of the type of consultancy that you, you do the type of work that you do, and better understand that.

Eboni  18:09  
Yeah, so for people who are looking to open a childcare center, it means me walking alongside them, helping them with the nitty gritty, like, the parts that are not the beautiful parts. It's the finding the documents. It's putting together your documents. It's brainstorming your ideas, and giving you templates to kind of make your mental ideas into more of a reality on paper and coaching folks, basically, through some of their ideas, processes for thoughts and walking alongside them. I think it's kind of the, it's the hands on work, that takes time, and it takes diligence and patience and effort. And also on a more foundational basis, preparing trainings, workshops, you know, walking alongside teachers who are grappling with certain content or ideas about how to support children, or working with leaders and how to support their staff. So those are different types of technical assistance and development work that I do with people. 

JoDee  18:17  
Something that I really liked about what you just said, is the coaching piece. So rather than just saying, Here are all the things you need to do to be able to open your learning center. You coach people to help them have a deeper understanding of the why. And that is such a teacher quality, rather than just saying, Here's your checklist. No, let's let's build a deeper understanding of what you're about to do and what you're getting into. And I think that that type of approach, definitely set somebody up for success in comparison to, you know, just trying to ensure that you do all the things to be certified to open your doors on day one.

Eboni  20:08  
I think it'd be okay. Also not having a complete answer, like teachers are very solution driven folks like problem answer, because we're having to fire off all day long, these split decisions and come to conclusions. And it's a slower walk. It's a much more deliberate walk to kind of be okay with that having an answer right now. And it discovering it really and truly.

JoDee  20:34  
I think that was probably one of my biggest challenges coming out of the classroom was when you're a teacher, and you teach a lesson, you can see the impact immediately in the student work it I mean, every day, you're getting some sort of evidence if your instruction was being impactful. And so now in my work, it's much longer. There's a much longer timeline to seeing if what we're doing is making an impact. And that was a really big adjustment for me, because I really did like that instantaneous data. So I could go at the end of the day, refine what I'm going to do tomorrow, build out my small groups. But it's a little bit different when you, when you don't have that like instant gratification when it comes to data. 

Eboni  21:21  
That's true. We collect data. I mean, you know, we use data, but it's not the hard and fast... You're right. It's more delayed gratification, for sure. 

Ali  21:31  
Yeah, I can relate to that to that just I think being in the classroom hands on every day, like you get a lot more of that. And so when you're providing, like training or technical assistance, you're in it for the long term with whoever you're supporting. And so you might not see those dividends pay off until, you know, a year or two later, but you know that the work is important, because you've been there yourself. I think one of the best parts about hearing you explain what you do is that when I was a teacher, I didn't know any of these jobs existed. I thought if I was going to move out of the classroom, well, there were really only a few options if I wanted to stay kind of within education or professional development. I had to either go to the district and become like a specialist in my area, which is kind of a challenge depending on what your area is. I was world language, and I did teach the most popular one, which is Spanish, but you know, there's only so many spots, not like math or science or... And then the other option was maybe trying to work for like a big company like that develops products or that writes textbooks or something like that. But that seemed even more unattainable and like far fetched. So I think it's really good for our listeners to hear that the role of like a consultant or a coach, or a technical assistance lead, which is technically my job title, like those are things you can search for, you can search for technical assistance, that's a term that's used a lot when you're providing support to education type organizations, whether it's in grants, whether it's in early childhood. So those are really, really key things to know that that there's other options out there that we're just... I don't know about you Eboni, but I just didn't know that these other things really existed. 

Eboni  23:10  
I agree with you, Ali. And I think, also, it is a challenge, particularly for those who see themselves in the niche category. So like you mentioned, World Language was yours. For me, it was early childhood. So if you weren't a teacher, like the only thing you could possibly see was maybe becoming an assistant principal or principal of an elementary school. The idea of having content specialists or coaches was more of a public school idea, and not necessarily an early child for the idea. So once I dove more deeply into the early childhood realm, I realized like Woah, there are these parts and positions and supports and structures that typically are not in that industry, that could totally support and is definitely needed to support teachers, and children, and leaders, and their families. and you know, all the things that we want people to be prepared for for kindergarten readiness. Those same structures don't really exist. And so I think the roles that you're talking about in the role I have found myself trickling into has definitely been trying to plug and play some of the same structural pieces that I saw in K 12 that I know are beneficial and helpful to structures in early childhood. And it's like, Hmm, you know, at some point, hopefully we can figure this out federally because it has to be beyond what this person can do and what this person can do on their own. There has to be a kind of a collective front about structure and support because children need it. Our children definitely need it, especially post pandemic. We're seeing, you know, a lot of concerns about young children as they've emerged from that period of time. We're seeing impacts on people's mental health and wellness and balancing life. We're seeing, you know, droughts in leadership. We're seeing droughts and practitioners. So I do think that the shift can be made in innovative ways, in niches that people may have assumed were not possible before or just a traditional route. I think more and more people are innovating with how to approach the work. And the skill sets that teachers have are transferable across the board. Because teachers are certain types of people. We want to help. We are organized. We're creative. We know how to manage multiple things. We enjoy working with others. So I think all those types of skills can, can land nicely in other pockets. And still the education pocket which is not in the classroom, per se 

JoDee  26:02  
I can tell that you're an innovator. And I love that teacher, bring that risk taker in you. But you also have this warmth of a teacher. So you kind of have this amazing balance of everything that I admire in an educator and I'm getting excited just hearing from you. Because I hear so many connections to specifically an organization I work with in New Orleans, because they're trying to hook their way into the early childhood development area. And we don't have anybody on our team that is really specialized in that area. So I'm getting excited just hearing what what you have. And I went on your website and just looked at your services and stuff. And just I love that right now that Ali has made this connection, you know, to our wider audience, but also to you and I expanding our network, because you really, you have such a knack for this area. And I hope that in the future, we can just make more connections with with our work and collaborate. 

Eboni  27:03  
That would be awesome, JoDee. I mean, you know, I've got the bug. 

Ali  27:07  
That's what I love about doing this podcast is that we've been able to make a lot of connections between each other, but then also between other guests that have been on that, you know, connect with each other. I'm sure there's there's online connections, virtual connections that we don't even know about. But really bringing to life the stories of teachers who have made a shift, whether that's, you know, within education or outside of education. It was just so great to learn about your story today, Eboni and the amazing work that you've been doing in early childhood education. We want to be able to share with our listeners if they want to connect with you that they can find you on LinkedIn, and also on your website Learningmattersconsulting.com We're going to link both of those in the show notes. Thank you again for your time today.

Eboni  27:52  
Thank you, Ali. Thank you, JoDee It's been a pleasure.

Ali  27:54  
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.