Teacher Shift
Here at Teacher Shift, hosts Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors unpack one of the toughest questions educators face when considering a career shift - Who am I if I’m not a teacher?
Teacher Shift podcast shares resources for educators who need help with job exploration, identity, wellness, financial planning, and decision-making. We invite teachers, former teachers, people that love to hire teachers, mental health professionals, resume coaches, scholars, and financial planners to share experiences and guidance with educators that need or are considering a shift.
Teacher Shift
Pro Shift Tips From a Former Teacher and Coach With Michael Cappo
Worried if you shift out of teaching that you might fail? Today’s guest did exactly that. He shifted out of teaching, failed and ultimately ended up coming out on top!
In this episode, Ali and JoDee are joined by Michael Cappo. Michael is a former teacher and coach of 13 years who now runs his own small business. Together, they’ll discuss his pivot away from education, how he failed when he left and how he eventually came out on top.
You’ll hear more about:
- Michael’s aha moment that led to his shift
- The identity struggle teachers can face
- Why fear of failure is holding you back
- Finding career fulfillment and work-life balance
- And more!
Connect with Michael:
A podcast decoding young brains and behavior in a digital world.
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Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Ali 0:06
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning, who am I if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.
JoDee 0:29
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:32
And this is Teacher Shift.
JoDee 0:43
Have you ever thought about making a shift, but you're worried about failure? Today, our guest sheds light on what it's like to shift, fail, and come out on top. This former coach and teacher has many motivating tips you may want to hear.
Ali 1:00
Today, our guest is Michael Cappo. He is a former educator and coach of 13 years. Mike has made two career shifts since leaving the classroom and is now a small business owner. He is also a proud husband and father of two. Welcome to the show today, Mike.
Mike 1:17
Thanks, I'm glad to be here.
Ali 1:19
We are really glad to get to know you. And we're thankful for one of our former guests who recommended you to be on the show. So let's jump right in today. And let's talk a little bit about what made you realize after being in the classroom for 13 years that you were ready for a shift.
Mike 1:37
For me, it wasn't really like a well thought out plan. It was kind of knee jerk. It was... I was coming home from another late night of baseball practice. My wife's at home with our son at the time who was approaching three years old and a newborn. And I just called the check in for the day. And I could just hear the overwhelming stress in her voice of just like, man, it sounds like she's about to have a breakdown. And I just had a moment where I said I can't do this anymore. Like I can't continue on down this road of working, you know, 80 plus hours a week, and watching my kids and my family grow, like through videos and pictures, and I'm getting sent to my phone. So I walked in the door and my wife said, how was your day? And I said, I am going in tomorrow, and I'm going to let them know that this is going to be my last go around of coaching. So the original plan for me was to step away from coaching and just stay in the classroom. And I realized real quickly that that wasn't going to work for me either. So then it was like, alright, like, let's figure out the next step. So it wasn't like, let's figure out the next step, then make the jump. It was like I'm making the jump, and then I'm just gonna figure it out. So from that point, I made some calls and actually connected with a former student athlete that I coached, his father, and they had a little bit of a financial service slash insurance business. And he was like, man, you're going to be a perfect fit. Come on. So I actually taught one year, one full calendar year, without coaching. And basically, at the end of that first quarter of the year, I went in to the administration and said, just like, you know, I'm going to fulfill my contract, but I'm not going to return for the following school year. So they had, you know, the majority of the year's notice. I mean so there was no ill will in how I left or anything like that. But that was the first step. So that was the first plan. Like I kind of took this on and some time to start doing, you know, requirement exams and stuff like that so I can be licensed in that field when I got out. And then that's when reality hits you. You know, when you leave.
JoDee 3:55
It sounds like you scaled back a little bit. You dipped your, your feet into something else, before making that full transition. But I'm the daughter of a college baseball coach. So right, I know, the amount of time and effort that goes into the sport. And I'm talking about baseball, specifically, because baseball has a really long season. I'm not talking like MLB long, but it's not like football where you know, it's a much shorter season. And that takes a lot of time and effort. And you're not necessarily compensated for the hours that you put in for all the after school work, the travel, the games, the playoffs, wherever your season may take you. And we have many coaches that listen to our podcast who have that, that same kind of question that they're asking like, Can I, can I keep doing this any longer and where do I go first. And I like that you share that your first step was stepping back from one thing rather than, like stopping everything. What I also heard was that because you were a coach, you had this connection to this next role that you were going into. And we find all the time that we build these relationships with these families who may, somehow, some way, show up for us in ways that we never thought were possible.
Mike 5:31
Exactly yeah. And looking to go into that, there was also a little bit of fear of when I said I was going to leave coach. And to the credit of the school I was at, my first fear was going into tell him I was leaving coaching, but I wanted to stay on and teach was, I was going to be told, Well, that's not an option. You know, you're here to coach and teach, not just teach. We didn't hire you for that. And thankfully, I was given an opportunity to continue to teach. But it just still didn't resonate in a way where I was like, Man, this is really driving me. And it's still taxing, and I know a lot of the conversations end up centering around time allotted, and how it spread out for your family. You're in such a regimented schedule. It has become very much the... was very much the challenge. Picking the kids up from school, you know, dropping them off at school. Opportunity that I didn't have. And that became very difficult. Like you said, with college coaching, that was my first goal. When I was in college, I was I wanted to be a college baseball coach. And then I watched one of our assistant coaches, who I'm still very good friends with, I watched him sitting on a park and curve as we were somewhere in nowhere Kentucky, and he's talking to his wife getting all the updates from his kids. And here he is in the early 2000s, making under $30,000 a year. And I said, I don't want that life. Like I'll just be a high school coach because it won't be as bad. And it wasn't much different. And it was a challenge.
Ali 7:04
I don't think that people who haven't served in a coaching role or grown up with a dad, as a coach, they just don't really understand that level of dedication of time. And also, I think what I heard from you is like the joy and the fulfillment that you got out of it was also a lot. I, I did the opposite of what you did, when I left teaching, I left teaching full time and I kept coaching. I coached speech and debate. And so I was like, I had such a hard time letting go of that team that I was like, well, if they'll just you know, give me my stipend for coaching, I'll say coach, and I'll be able to be with my kids different way. Had to set some boundaries. But ultimately, it was just too much because those after school hours, those are usually the hours when you want to be with your kids. And for me I was, had tournaments on the weekends too, you know, in addition to after school practice. So, you know, I think the plus side is that it's very fulfilling to be a coach. But once you become a parent, it's hard because you want that time with your own kids and with your family. And you know, I respect so much that you heard that in your wife's voice that she you know, that was hard for you to miss those moments. But also, it sounds like you wanted to support her to.
JoDee 8:20
Well, and even if you don't have a family, or children of your own, maybe you want to be spending time with the other people that you love, significant others, friends, nieces, nephews, cousins. Maybe you want to be at the Boys and Girls Club volunteering or something. Like, sometimes we want to make time for, that quality time, for the people that we love being around.
Ali 8:43
I also think JoDee, what you said about, you know, having other interest is that one thing that's challenging, I think about teaching and about leaving teaching, is that we don't just usually see it as our job. It kind of becomes more than our job. And I think that's why, you know, it is kind of like all of our hobbies and all of our interests and everything gets poured into teaching and it doesn't really leave space for adults to have time for other things. Whether that is you know, volunteering, spending time with family, meeting new friends, meeting a partner. I mean, if you're young and you are a teacher, like it can be hard to meet someone if you're at school all the time. So definitely can impact a lot of, a lot of different adults in different ways.
Mike 9:26
I found that like exactly what you're saying. One of the toughest things was like you look up at some point, and you go, Wow, like I have made this the most important thing. LKike afraid to miss work for being sick because you're gonna let your co workers down, your administration down, or your kids down. But then on the flip side, it's like you had other people outside of that environment: wives, children, who they needed you and you're like, Well, I can't miss work for that. And because you get so ingrained and so invested in it. And because let's face it, it's a, it's a tough career to start with. The compensation does not equal the amount of time and effort that people put in. And I can say that wholeheartedly. And yet, like, you become so invested in it, you lose sight of the big picture. And for me, I didn't gain sight of the big picture until we lost my mom suddenly, prior to our first child being born. And I missed a ton of time. And I mean, prior, I'm talking three weeks before. And it was like... Finally, it took that for me to realize, wait a minute, like, this doesn't matter. And what I mean by that is like, someone's going to pick up the pieces if I'm not there. And in today's world with all of the uploading your curriculum online and aligned curriculums, I had teachers who stepped right in and seamlessly, and for like, two weeks, just handled everything. And it was that moment where I was like, I can be free from this a little bit. But still, it's demanding. It's very demanding. And it got to a point where it was like, there has to be more out there.
JoDee 9:26
And it's not just us getting wrapped up in the identity and kind of immersing ourselves in this career. There are these expectations from our community that we do sacrifice ourselves for this. That we do become the fundraisers. That we do become the the people that teach all of the extracurriculars. That we stay late for all of these events. And that we not go home to our own families. There's not even a thought in people's mind that maybe they want to spend time with their families. So I hear it all the time. All the time between friends, our own community, that they expect us to just give, give, give, and we don't have a separate life outside of the school building. And unfortunately, teachers get to a point where they start to burn out, or they start to realize the more important things in life, like spending time with loved ones, or not having an empty tank all the time for the people that need us the most. And we know how much, as teachers, home life matters, when we are raising children. So to be present for our own families is going to have a huge impact on how our own children perceive home life and how they go to school, you know, fully cognitively able to learn. So there's a little bit of a cycle there. And we have to give ourselves permission to be there for our families.
Ali 13:03
And it sounds like you kind of had this, you had this big moment, which I don't know if you if you know, but JoDee, and I have also both lost our mothers, so we can like really empathize with you that it's a very big loss when that happens. Then you welcome a child to the world. And then you know, you're missing out on these moments. And so you realize, okay, this is not even with letting go the coaching, this is not the right path for me anymore. And you did an amazing job, being a teacher for the number of years that you did and a coach. And I'm sure you impacted numerous lives and years of students with your coaching. But you're ready to make a shift. And so you said you first moved into a field that was... you were studying for your insurance exams and everything like that. But I know you also made another shift. So can you tell us a little bit you know, sometimes teachers are nervous to make a shift. It may not be the perfect shift. What was that like with making one shift, and then another one?
Mike 13:58
So the first shift was the most difficult because here I am entering a totally new world, which I learned real quick was not who I was as a person. It sales. They sell you the dream of, you're gonna go to all these fancy lunches. You're going to sell all these people these life insurance policies. This, that and the other and you're going to be sitting pretty well. What they don't tell you is just how difficult it is to start from ground zero. You know, and when you're, at the time 36 years old, and two kids, you don't have that cushion of being able to just go sleep on mom and dad's couch because you're not making any money. The hard thing about that first situation was I still was coach. So when I would call on people, I'm three months removed from teaching. Hey, I want to talk to you about your life insurance, so this, that and the other. Well this is the coach call and what does he know about insurance? I had to really, really take a step back and look at that. And in the midst of all of this, what happens COVID hits. Everything shut down. So I had I had to think about it. Now I'm at home, I can't get any more education about how to learn about this, what do I do? And that's what I'm going to teach myself. So I sat rigorously on the internet, learning about every type of insurance. All of these different things. I'm signing up for classes. And then it hit me, I said, all these people that I called on before and they gave me the line of just really busy right now. We got so much going on. Can you call me when things slow down? I just sort of picking up the phone, Hey, things slow down, huh? You're sitting at home. Because nobody can go anywhere. It's COVID. And here are the things we can do. And I just started selling. And I mean, I was very proud of myself. That first full year in I became the second highest selling agent in the agency in the country. And I was like, wow, like I've made it. And then you fast forward to August of 21. And what happens? And for us in New Orleans, Hurricane Ida. So all of these insurance policies that I'm pushing through, whether it's homeowners or life insurance, whatever the emails and phone calls start coming. We got to press pause. We can't do this. We can't do that. Oh, by the way, you get the information from the insurance commissioner. You can't write homeowners insurance. So here I am evacuated, sitting on a beach in Florida going I don't know where my next paycheck is coming from and what do I do? Luckily, I had a friend who said, hey, you need to get back here. Lots of work to be done. And when you were teaching, didn't you have a background in construction where you built fences? And I said, Yeah. He said, you need to get back here. Like, I think you got an opportunity. And so I came back, and me and him, in our late 30s are over out on the weekends, swinging hammers, tearing stuff, out building fences, sustaining. And then all of a sudden work starts getting out and anybody from New Orleans knows that bigger than any Google page or anything like that is who you are. Do you know a guy? Word of mouth. And we grew exponentially overnight. And that's when I said, You know what, I'm going to turn this into a brand. I'm going to turn this into a business. And we're gonna make it legitimate. We're going to grow. And I believe that going through the struggle and kind of having my knees scraped up through all of this and being older and understanding what it takes to start and maintain a business. And then also in the back of my head, the other three people in my house who are relying on me going. In my head, I'm going I can't fail because of them. Like, I got to do this for them. I just catapulted and grew it. And for the first time, now the client base I'm around, they don't know me as Coach. So like, it does feel like I have finally been able to shift out of that identity. You know, it's the old thing of like, I remember going to like sporting events, like whether it was a saints game or whatever. And like the kid who you taught seeing you at the game and looking at you awkwardly because you're the coach. Well, now if I see someone in public that I built a fence or did some work in their yard from, it's, Hello, how are you doing? Like, that identity of being a teacher, like sometimes you felt like in times in public, you were a leper. Like it was weird for them to see you. And like, oh my god, this part, this person's, this person's human, he shopping at Target, right?
JoDee 18:45
All of a sudden, you're a real person.
Ali 18:48
You go to the grocery store.
Mike 18:50
Right? Why is my teacher at Target, you know? And especially at a young age teaching being like 25, 26 I'm at the Superdome, you know, drinking a beer watching the game. The kids are like Coach is drinking a beer. And it's like, yes, because I'm an adult of age. You know, and the first career was very difficult because I still hadn't been able to shed that identity of everyone looking at you.
JoDee 19:16
It's no secret here on the podcast that teachers make a really good entrepreneurs. But that identity part sometimes takes a little while to shed. Now, when I made my shift, I still work really heavily in the education landscape. So I feel like I haven't shed that identity too much. But what was that like for you kind of going through each of these shifts, becoming this new person and slowly shedding that? Are you okay with that? Do you feel like sometimes you might revert back to that inner coach in you when you're working with your employees or making decisions to create the most productive environment possible so you can reach your end goal? Do you ever channel that part of you?
Mike 20:11
I do. And I believe that, for me, a lot of the success has come from... I sell things. I sell fences. I sell goods and services to people, but I don't feel like I'm a salesman. So when I go meet with a customer, or even when I'm meeting with my crew, my workers, it's all about educating. So like, here's why we're going to do this. And these are the steps to it. This is the process to it. And almost like, you know, it's kind of like stating the daily goals. When you start your class. I feel like when I go meet with a customer, like, here are the goals of what we're trying to achieve. Let me hear from you. And it's more of educating. And I end up getting a lot of work. Because when I get the customer to call me back, they may say, Well, hey, yeah, I met with you and I met with this person, but you were so much more thorough. You explained it so much clearer. And I tried to take that mold into like that idea into insurance. And in some aspects that worked. My business name when I was selling insurance was I was the insurance coach. So I tried to like, embrace that background into what I was doing. But to be honest with you, I just wasn't. Still really didn't drive me. When you know, when I was teaching, I had to wear a shirt and tie every day here I am selling insurance. Once again, still in a shirt and tie where I love to be in a sweatshirt and jeans and like get my hands dirty. The coaching part was me. I give me a rake and give me you know, hose to wet the field. That's what, that's where I wanted to be. So like now I'm so much more fulfilled, not only from like a professional standpoint, but even at home. And I think the biggest thing with that, and I think all anyone with children would agree. The moments that hit me is when I do something with my children that otherwise couldn't be accomplished if I was still teaching. Like, our children are still young. So every year for Labor Day, we take them out of school a day early, and we go to the beach, and we eat. That was not an opportunity that could happen when I was teaching. My children's school has a big father child weekend, every year where we go camping, we drive an hour and a half away. We get the tents and everything. And it's a Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It's right in the middle of March, which is right in the middle of baseball season. If I was still coaching, my children would have never experienced that event. And to me, that's where the idea for me like was like, Man, I could never go back to that. And that because like that freedom. And because you're so committed, what am I supposed to do? Go tell our kids and our coaches like, Hey, I'm not gonna be here this weekend. I know we have all these games, but I'm going camping with my kids. Like that just doesn't work to some people that have never been educators that were like, why what's the big deal? Because if you work in a bank, and you say I'm taking a day off, because I'm going to do this, my kids, it's no big deal. You put the you know, clothes on in front of your window, when you go. When you're in that education field, when you're in coaching, you don't just get the put up the sign and walk away. And to me, that's been my motivation. That was one other key motivato that really struck me. Even before I left coaching, one day, a bunch of coaches, we will all want to feel that the start of practice. And you know, coaches are like teachers in the in the teachers lounge, but we're just on the field. And we're all sitting there talking. And you know, we're all trying to solve the world's problems and complaining about this, that and the other. And I remember at one point me saying like, Man, I really think I need to make a decision to try something different. And I had another coach who had been doing this a long time. And he looked at him and he said, Coach, we're stuck. This is all we'll ever be. We don't know anything else. We can't do anything else. This is what we are. And that struck me. And I looked at him and I didn't even hesitate. I said no, we're never stuck. We can choose to be stuck. But I don't care what it is. I will figure it out. And when I've had enough of this, I'll go find something else. And that kind of has always been my motivating factor. Thinking of that line of that person telling me like we're stuck. Because I don't feel like in anything in your life. you're ever stuck. But I do feel like a lot of teachers do feel like they're stuck. There is no, What can I do? You know? That's the hard thing.
Ali 24:46
We hear this so much. I love how positive you are. Like I just have to say that. The way that you're approaching and telling the story and you know sharing how you went, you know went to one thing it didn't work out but then you moved on to the next thing. Not everybody has that, that like positivity. Because we're, when you're in the school house. It's like this homogenous group of people, right? So we're all saying we all do the same type of jobs. And we think like, unless someone has actually gone out and done it, that it might not be possible. But you didn't think that. You can just say, Yeah, I'm stuck to. Because I felt like that for a while. I felt like maybe I was, like, stuck, but who's gonna hire me? Right? Who's gonna want to hire a teacher? And I think that that was part of your story. You know, when you first moved into insurance, it was like you were still seen as the coach or the teacher. And I just to let our listeners know, once you make your first shift, then that's the thing you become temporarily. Like, you'll tell people like when people ask me what I do, I don't usually lead with Well, I used to be a teacher unless like, I'm in an education setting. I'll just say, Oh, I'm a project manager, blah, blah. If it comes up, I'll say that I used to be a teacher. But that's your new thing. And so I guess what I want to close out today with is asking you, what advice would you give to a teacher who wants to make a shift, but isn't sure which direction they should go? So say if you know, if you could say one line to coach someone into a shift, what would you tell them?
Mike 26:11
Don't be afraid to fail. I mean, don't be afraid to fail. Because at the end of the day, actually, you're in a good boat right now if you're a teacher. Because guess what, if you go out and fail, there's a huge teacher shortage, right now. You can always go back and get a job. I mean, I went in it without the fear of failure. And I failed. I mean, when I first started, I failed. I'll be the first to tell people my first six months in my new career, I made about as much money as I would make in two months teaching, I made six months selling insurance. So like I failed. But it was it was learning experiences. What did you learn from it? And how did you grow? And good things take time. You know, there's not many people that are going to leave a teaching job making 40, 50 $60,000 a year, and go run into a job making $150,000 a year, unless you have some connections. And someone's willing to give you this position. If you're going to do it on your own, and you want to be an entrepreneur, you're going to start at the bottom and you're going to scrape and claw. But the pride that you get out of it is you control it. There's no one, there's no continuing education hours, you're getting those No... we had professional development. You have to go. You make it. And to me that has been it's very satisfying, and completely terrifying at the same time. That you get the satisfaction from all of your hard work paying off, and the things you're able to do with your family, and maybe the financial reward. And it's also terrifying that, if something doesn't work out, you're the one in complete control. And there's there's no paycheck coming in for you, just because you're showing up, because you're a warm body in the room. So it's great, and it's terrifying. But the terrifying part is what drives you to be great. So don't be afraid to fail.
Ali 28:07
And some of the most successful people failed a lot before they became successful. If you've ever seen those, you know, so and so was this age when they finally had this invention, or when they finally, you know, became a famous actor. So, failure is part of the journey. You know, if you didn't fail, you wouldn't be able to learn, like you just described. And we all know that, as teachers, our students sometimes struggle and they fail, but in the end, they overcome if they work hard.
JoDee 28:37
I appreciate that you just brought up failure, because we talk about a lot of the successes and the successful transitions. But sometimes we don't talk about the toughness that comes with that first shift, perhaps. So thank you for touching on that topic.
Mike 28:54
Yeah, when you're a baseball coach, I mean, you know, this. Baseball, if they fail 70% of the time, they're considered to be pretty good. That means I get three hits every 10 at bat. So I mean, you're gonna fail.
JoDee 29:06
If I was batting 250, I was like, I'm doing great.
Mike 29:10
Right? And so that you're failing 75% of the time, you know, I don't get every job that I've been out. That used to be sometimes even when I first started this, and I didn't get that job, that client and they went with somebody else I would get beat up about it. And the other thing I could tell people too, is don't be afraid to ask for help. Meaning like don't be afraid to ask people who have been successful in their business for help. I'm so blessed that I have a I have a very good friend who happens to be my next door neighbor, who runs a business in the same field as me. We're not competitors. We actually work well together. But as I was building this, Hey, how did you do this? What do you do when this happens? So first time I'm ever doing is what do I do? And you'll be shocked at how many people will help you. When I was first getting into this, I was sending messages to random people on LinkedIn, that were successful business owners in this area saying, Can I just have a minute to talk? I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm not. I want to learn. How did you get to this point? And you would be surprised at how many people were like, Sure, let's go to lunch because they love being able to tell their story. And, and there was at least three or four people that impacted me in that way where it was like, okay. And it provides some normalcy that even though you see the person that's maybe this big time successful person today, they were no different than you when they started. And ask for help. It's okay to not know the answer.
Ali 30:47
Well, I love that. And I think it's the perfect way to close this out today. To you know, ask for help. I know that failures, okay. That's just part of your path to success. And I really see this as the start of you giving advice and giving back to others. And I know for a fact that if someone reaches out to you, that you would be happy to chat with them and to let them know what you've learned. And, you know, 10 years from now you're going to be the one taking people out to lunch.
Mike 31:16
That's the hope.
Ali 31:17
I love that. Well, Mike, thanks so much for your time today. We do want to let our listeners know how they can connect with you so they can find your website Nolafencesolutionsllc.com And they can also connect with you on social media and we'll link that in the notes for today's episode.
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Oroduced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.