Teacher Shift
Here at Teacher Shift, hosts Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors unpack one of the toughest questions educators face when considering a career shift - Who am I if I’m not a teacher?
Teacher Shift podcast shares resources for educators who need help with job exploration, identity, wellness, financial planning, and decision-making. We invite teachers, former teachers, people that love to hire teachers, mental health professionals, resume coaches, scholars, and financial planners to share experiences and guidance with educators that need or are considering a shift.
Teacher Shift
Making a Transition From the Classroom With a Teacher Friend With Hillary Gale and Kristin MacIntyre
Teachers possess skills that go far beyond the classroom, however they can struggle making the transition into another career utilizing these skills. Today, you’ll hear the story of two former teachers who have transitioned away from education and into the freelance world, one making 3 times her teacher salary!
Today, Ali and JoDee sit down with former teachers and current copywriters, Hillary Gale and Kristin MacIntyre. Together, they’ll discuss the emotions they felt leaving teaching, making the pivot into copywriting, and why passions and strengths are key when pivoting careers.
Connect with Hillary and Kristin:
Teachers Make the Leap
Teachers Make the Leap Instagram
Hillary’s LinkedIn
Kristin’s LinkedIn
A podcast decoding young brains and behavior in a digital world.
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Connect with Ali and JoDee:
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Teacher Shift LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teacher-shift
Ali’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisimon/
JoDee’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodeescissors/
Website
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/
Episode Transcriptions
https://www.teachershiftpodcast.com/blog
Ali 0:06
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Ali Simon.
JoDee 0:29
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:32
And this is Teacher Shift.
JoDee 0:43
Selecting a career with a skill that you need to build on is one way to make a leap. Today, our guests share how they use their strengths to build their own successful freelance businesses. They're also here to help teachers interested in transferring skills into a new career path.
Ali 1:02
Today, we're joined by two guests. Hillary Gale is the founder of Moneta Copy, a copy and content agency for financial services businesses, and co founder of Teachers Make the Leap, of course and community for educators who want to start online freelance businesses to confidently leave the classroom. She spent five years teaching before making a career shift. Our other guest is Kristin MacIntyre, a former university adjunct instructor turned six figure freelance copywriter. Within three years of leaving her role as a teacher, she tripled her salary working for herself. Now she's on a mission to help other teachers build lucrative freelance businesses, so they can change the way it works shows up in their lives. Welcome to the show today, ladies.
Hillary 1:47
Thank you.
Ali 1:49
We are so glad to have you on the podcast. And I've really enjoyed listening to the first few episodes of your podcast, Teachers Make the Leap, and learning a little bit more about the copywriting business. But I really want our listeners to be able to hear your stories about why you decided to leave education and take this leap into your new profession. So why don't we go ahead this time and start with Hillary?
Hillary 2:14
Yeah, well, thank you so much for having us. And just kind of thinking back a few years ago, and when I decided to make the leap, which was right around the same time as Kristin. I think that for both of us, and for me, especially we were both just really unhappy with how much we were making alongside how much we were working. So it was really just kind of this imbalance of I am putting my entire life into teaching. And I have not seen anywhere close to kind of the return on all the hours that I'm putting in to help me live even just kind of a modest, comfortable life that I wanted to be living.
Yeah, absolutely. And that is definitely a teacher struggle that salaries have not really kept up. And it's difficult to have, like you said, a traditional middle class lifestyle on a teacher's salary. So Kristin, was that similar for you? Or did you have a little bit different story?
Kristin 3:05
Yeah, I would love to share my experience as well. And just for listeners, Hillary and I actually taught together at the same university, and we were sharing an office almost at one point. And so we were friends in the classroom, which is real fun, because we got to experience each other as teachers and became great friends in that setting, and then made the transition out of teaching essentially alongside of each other. So that's been kind of great fun to have kind of a teacher bestie make the transition alongside me. I would love to echo everything Hillary said. For me, the main two reasons that I left teaching, which to be clear was a job I thought I would have for the duration of my career. I come from a really long line of teachers. I could name probably 10, like very close family members who have lifelong careers inside the classroom. So when I started teaching, I thought I would be teaching for a very long time. And very quickly, when I started my teaching career, I noticed two things. Number one, like Hillary said, what I was earning didn't seem to add up to me. Didn't seem to be able to let me live the type of life that I was wanted to or really reach for some of the goals I had for my future like starting a family or buying a home and those kinds of things. I couldn't see how that was going to happen for me on a teacher's salary. And to be clear, I was a university adjunct. So I was earning around $45,000 a year at that point, as a single woman. So the earning capacity was something that really made me look beyond the classroom. The other part of teaching that I felt really out of line with was that my mental health and my physical health started to suffer quite a bit as I poured more of myself into the teaching job and really wasn't seeing that return on the investment like Hillary had mentioned. So saw that decline and I was just interested to see what might be out there beyond the classroom for me.
JoDee 5:07
We hear a lot from our guests that they're not getting what they want out of it, whether it's, you know, like, is it filling them emotionally? Is it giving them enough capacity to be able to live their life fully? Whether that's just like your body physically, or financially. And a lot of people that we talk to will say, I want to talk about what people don't want to talk about, which is, we're not earning enough to be able to live the lives that we want to live based on what we're giving. And it's interesting to hear from you that you come from this lineage of educators. So there's these different levels of expectations about what you're going to do with your life. And when I was looking at some of the information you all sent me and kind of dissecting the emotions and feelings that you went through during a shift. There were two that really stuck out to me, because they're ones that we don't see that often. And Hillary, you marked shame. And Kristin, one of them that you marked was relief, which are two very opposite type of emotions. And you had you had multiple in there that are all kind of interrelated. But I wanted to ask you each about those specific feelings that you may have felt because like you, I was kind of all over the place. I was feeling one thing one day and another thing the other day. But we do kind of go through this spectrum of feeling really deep, hard feelings, and then kind of the weight is lifted at some point. So can we unpack shame and relief for a little bit?
Hillary 6:54
Yeah, absolutely. Kristin and I have very similar stories. I also come from a really long line of teachers. So I think we both kind of have that ingrained sense of valuing teaching and kind of loving teaching. And so for me, the shame, I think came from a couple different things. I think, one, it felt like I was maybe the first one in my family to kind of give up on this career that so many others had really, really loved and prided themselves on. So I think that was a part of it for me. I think another part of it for me was, there were so many things that I did love about teaching. I loved getting to run a classroom. I loved the relationships I made with students. There were so many things that I loved. And so I think there was a little bit of shame of choosing a different path with one of the primary reasons being to make more money. I think I had some money mindset issues coming in there as well, that were causing me to feel a lot of shame.
JoDee 7:54
I wonder why teachers feel shameful for wanting to make more money. Like we shouldn't have to feel that way. I know, in a man's world, that's not something that they probably feel. But like women in a female dominated profession, we shouldn't have to feel bad about if we want to earn more for our lifestyle or to take care of our families or whatever it might be. We should have that right. And the right to feel good about that choice.
Hillary 8:23
I completely agree with you. And I really found myself once I did make that kind of permanent leap into entrepreneurship, I found myself having to really unpack and kind of uncondition myself the way that I had come to think about how much I deserve to earn and how hard I needed to work to earn what I wanted to earn and all these different kinds of things. And one thing that really kind of stuck in my mind, that I think is related is, I've heard so many people say well, you don't go into teaching for the money, right? So then to leave teaching because the money was not enough. It feels like I should have known this. In the beginning, I should have been prepared for this. I should have been able to make this work because I had so many people telling me in the beginning of my teaching career, Well, you didn't go into it for the money. So what are you complaining about? So I think that had a really big impact on why I felt a lot of shame. I don't know if maybe you all can relate to that.
Ali 9:20
I mean, I think that traditionally fields where women are the majority are underpaid, and it's just kind of accepted that if you're a teacher or a nurse or you know you're these care roles, that Oh, you're gonna make less money. And it's because you love it so much, because it's your calling. And there's this kind of myth or I don't know stereotype... I'm trying to think of the right word you both are English teachers. Hope it comes to you. But there's this like, that we've created that people should just be doing this work, because it's for the greater good and they just know that but the truth of the matter is that a lot of people go into teaching and they do hope to move somewhere with to higher salary. They might want to go into administration, they might want to go into some other type of a leadership role within a school district. But that pyramid is small. I mean, the bottom is all teachers and support staff. And there's very few people that make probably, I would argue, like over $60,000 a year. And so, unfortunately, there's not as many opportunities. And I think that's where people like, the four of us, look outside of the schoolhouse, because we realize that maybe the lives that we want to live, we're not going to be able to do that on a teacher's salary. And maybe we're not in a position where if you're married, and your spouse makes, you know, significant amount more, maybe you can stay in that role. And the money isn't as much of a concern, but it might be something else. But not everybody's in that position. So that's kind of my two cents on it.
Kristin 10:47
I'd love to add something quickly. I think for me, too, I did not check off shame as a emotion that I was really feeling when I was making the shift, so to speak. But I can relate to that feeling, in my journey, from the classroom to, to a brand new career. And for me, I think I spent so long inside a system that really chronically and systemically undervalues its workers: teachers, and support staff in particular. And when you're in that environment for so long, and your friends and your family, and you know, all of this, like the whole community around you, are also undervalued. It's really easy to start to question the value of your work, because nobody around you is showing you that your work really does have value, you know, in a monetary sense, that you should be compensated more for it. So that was also I think a piece of this shame for me is can I leave this system that has taught me the value of my work, and it's really low? And can I break out of that? And is my work worth more than this? I don't know. Right? A lot of those questions are unanswered when you're making the shift.
Ali 11:58
Yeah, and I think that's a really great segue into what you all decided to make a shift into. So both of you were former English instructors, and decided to transition into copywriting. So I want to know, why copywriting? How did you come... You know, how did you decide to go into that? How did you come across it? Let's start with you, Kristin.
Kristin 12:18
For me, I had always loved writing. I, you know, it's one of those things that I always gravitated to. I was an English teacher. I had an advanced degree in writing. So I spent a lot of time thinking about writing as a way of communicating, thinking about how to write effectively or communicate effectively. And my job as a teacher was to help freshmen students discover how to write research papers and think through all the different modes of communication in in writing. So the funny part about my story, and I know Hillary shares this as well, is in my entire English career or career inside the English department and my entire schooling in English departments. Nobody had ever told me what copywriting was. It seemed to exist purely outside of the English department, which was very literature focused and maybe belonged in a different, you know, the business school or in marketing classes, perhaps you discovered that I had never come across this word copywriting. And when, I when I did come across copywriting as a concept in 2018, or 2019, I had said to myself, Oh, I could probably do that, you know, I've really been honing out of skills in the past X amount of years that would probably lend to this. And it was kind of like a series of light bulbs went off in my head because I discovered that maybe there actually was an avenue where a passion for writing and an interest in writing could earn me more money than a teacher salary. And I totally struggled with the, you know, the myth out there that you're the starving writer, or if you're a rat, you're an English major, what are you going to do with that degree? You know, so, to discover copywriting was not only a viable career, but it could potentially be a lucrative one. I was really excited. And I guess the rest is kind of history. I just kind of took off from there.
Ali 14:13
So for our listeners who might not be as familiar with copywriting, Hillary, can you kind of just break it down for us? Like, what is copywriting in layman's terms?
Hillary 14:22
Yeah, such a great question. So in the simplest, most basic terms, copywriting of sales writing. cCpywriting is writing that businesses every business on the planet needs in order to connect with their potential customers. And so very much like Kristin when I discovered, and Kristen is the one that actually kind of like, introduced me to this world of copywriting, and she discovered it online and then she introduced me to it. There was a part of me that was like, Oh, I can get paid to write. This sounds perfect for me. I would love to do this. And there was another part of me that was like, sales writing. That sounds kind of icky. I'm not really into sales. I don't think of myself as like being into sales. And I know Kristin can relate to that, too. And so it was just really, really wonderful though once we started learning more about copywriting and kind of diving into the psychology behind copywriting and things like that, that there is also this whole kind of movement behind ethical marketing and ethical copywriting and working with brands that you really believe in and things like that. So, to give a little bit more context, I think what copywriting can look like, especially in online spaces, it can include writing things like blogs, and social media posts for businesses, but it can also include writing things like sales, emails, and sales pages, and websites and things like that. So there's a whole range of different types of copywriting projects and skills that you can hone and deliver. In its most basic form, copywriting is really sales writing.
JoDee 15:51
Well, I have to say that teachers can learn new skill. We learn this over and over and over through every interview is that we are capable of trying something new, persevering through something new, and an establishing a skill that can help us be successful in another field, or like you all having your own business. And what I like too, is that you guys have this podcast. And it is a way to take your teacher brain to help others. You, you now have new students with Teachers Make the Leap podcast and you have these services that help teachers. So you have these courses and this community for educators to help them start a freelance business. And we hear from a lot of business owners. Teachers that are now business owners. But sometimes, what we don't hear are kind of those explicit strategies, those steps that you need to take to be able to make this business happen. We get a lot of like the motivating words. A lot of you know, just try it just go out there and do it. But if anybody is like me, I'm very textbook in terms of like, what is my first step? What path am I supposed to be following? Yes, I have the ability to, to be able to improvise. But that's just the kind of learner I am. So what led you to starting this podcast and having a new audience of learners who are adults trying to pursue a business?
Hillary 17:30
So that's such a great question. Because I know for me when I was first starting my business, having no business experience whatsoever, having no idea kind of what the first concrete steps were, it was really, really helpful for me to have like a plan and to start connecting with other people who had started the kinds of businesses that I wanted to start. And to understand like, Okay, what do I need, in order to start conversations with some potential clients. I need a way to showcase my work or what I can do to help, like how I can help them. I probably need a website with some information about me so that they can learn about what it's like to work with me. And I probably need a way for them to contact me. So I need, you know, my contact information out there, or I need a LinkedIn profile kind of stating what it is that I do. So that was really the first step for me was thinking about if I want to offer services to clients. What do I need in order to to make myself kind of an attractive person for them to work with?
Ali 18:31
Definitely, and we hear a lot from different guests who are both have made the leap themselves and shifted out of teaching, but also who work in recruiting and hiring and HR, that LinkedIn is a really important space for you to be in. When you're looking to expand your network. When you're looking to have new clients like yourselves. You know, you're building a business. So that's a great way that you just describe to our listeners that they could start building themselves up. Kristin, do you want to add anything on to that?
Kristin 18:59
Yeah, I think truly in the beginning, for me, my very first step, and you might even call this like a pre step. It's like point zero, right? It was truly to make a decision about what type of business I wanted to start. And I see a lot of teachers who are very interested in freelancing or online entrepreneurship get stuck here, because they're holding all these possibilities at once. Right? So it's like, maybe I could be a copywriter. Maybe I could be a graphic designer. Maybe I could be a bookkeeper. We hear these possibilities all the time. And it's so hard to really hone in on and make progress toward five different possibilities at once. So I think the very first step for folks who are interested in freelance business is to decide what that skill is that they really want to offer clients. For me was a little bit of a no brainer when I discovered what it was copywriting writing has always been a passion for me. So that made a lot of sense. But I would encourage teachers to do some introspection to decide what that business might be and ask themselves, what skill do they love? We've heard from teachers who are like, I'm the go to person on my floor to make all of this stuff in Canva, and make like the pretty whole passes and make, you know, like designs for my classroom and my, my bulletin board always looks the best on the floor. Maybe that's a skill that you can turn into a graphic design business. And maybe you're a math teacher and you love crunching numbers. A bookkeeping business might make sense for you. So that would be the first place, I'd encourage folks to start.
JoDee 20:38
That sounds very similar to what we hear about resume building. Because teachers will have this teacher resume applying for all these different types of jobs. And it's kind of like you have to step back, think about what you really want. What skills do you really want to hone in on? And how can you make your resume be a representation of that, and whatever you're going to pursue? Because, you know, they'll say, oh, I want to try this. I want to try this. I want to try this. I've been applying for this. And I'm like, Well, you need a different resume for each of those jobs. So it's very similar in terms of first step.
Ali 21:20
Yeah. And I think it's hard because as teachers, we're kind of like a Jack or Jill of all trades. Like we have to do all of the things when we're in the classroom. And so, at least for me, I always feel like I'm like kind of an eclectic type person, like I can do all these different things. I like a lot of things. And it's hard when you know, potentially, when you're leaving something that you thought you would be in for your whole career, and you're ready to make a transition. How do you narrow it down to one thing, right? This is like my perpetual problem. Even now, I'm like, What do I want to do next? Like there's four different things I can do next. So I think what you both were kind of getting at is finding something that you really connect with. Something that I think you're passionate about. And then for me, I would say something that probably comes easy or that you're good at. It's your strength. Because I mean, you can be passionate about something and learn new skills 100%. But I think if you're looking maybe to go into freelance, it should be something that you have more skill or or you'd like something that you're stronger at. Would you kind of agree with that?
Hillary 22:21
Absolutely. And I was actually gonna say I think you really I've kind of two options here, when you're thinking about starting a freelance business is you may have a skill that is like packaged and ready to go. Or you may be interested in a skill and need to spend some time kind of learning about it. And I think what you said Ali is right on the nose. It's okay to choose a skill that you're not an expert in yet. Kristin and I had never even heard of copywriting before we started, you know, this journey kind of towards building copywriting businesses. But we did have this underlying really strong writing skills that I think really lent themselves to turning us into successful copywriters. And so I love how you kind of packaged that up. Because like, what strengths do you have? And how could you turn that into a skill that you could freelance? And what what do you what do you need to do? Or what kind of learning do you need to do to take yourself from your underlying foundation is to I'm ready to kind of freelance this skill and start offering it to clients?
Ali 23:18
Well, I think that our listeners have learned so much from you today about your journeys, and really about how what copywriting is how you might start looking into transitioning or making a shift into copywriting. I want to end by like kind of a let's think of this as a quickfire question, what would be one tip for a teacher looking specifically to make a leap or shift into copywriting? So what would one tip?
Hillary 23:42
One tip is to find someone on Instagram or YouTube or LinkedIn. Someone who's another copywriter and just kind of start following them. See if you can get a sense of like what copywriting is and how people start really successful copywriting businesses. Maybe start conversations with the people you connect with on social media and just kind of starting to expand your network from a position of curiosity.
Ali 24:07
I love that advice. Let's go over to you, Kristin.
Kristin 24:11
I'm gonna give a book recommendation. I started off my freelance career reading a book called, The Slight Edge, by Jeff Olson. And it's not copywriting specific, but I hold it so dearly. And I think it really ties nicely into any type of shift that you want to make. It really focuses on how small actions every day add up to really big changes. And it was just really pivotal in my journey from the classroom to entrepreneurship and I can't recommend it enough.
Ali 24:41
I love that too. And I'm adding that to my book list because I have not read, The Slight Edge, yet. So some really great tips from both of you today. But the biggest thing is I want our listeners to know how they can connect with you. So if you're interested in learning more about Hillary and Kristin, you can follow them on Instagram at Teachers Make the Leap, on LinkedIn, Teachers Make the leap, and on their website, teachersmaketheleap.com. If you'd also like to connect with them personally, you can find Hillary Gale on LinkedIn and Kristin MacIntyre on LinkedIn. Thank you both so much for your time today.
Are you interested in suggesting a topic for Teacher Shift? Being a guest or recommending a guest? Please see the episodes page on our website to make a submission. And if you'd like to write for us, see our blog page. If you liked Teacher Shift, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon music. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Ali Simon, and my co host, JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Shift. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr.