Teacher Shift
Here at Teacher Shift, hosts Ali Simon and JoDee Scissors unpack one of the toughest questions educators face when considering a career shift - Who am I if I’m not a teacher?
Teacher Shift podcast shares resources for educators who need help with job exploration, identity, wellness, financial planning, and decision-making. We invite teachers, former teachers, people that love to hire teachers, mental health professionals, resume coaches, scholars, and financial planners to share experiences and guidance with educators that need or are considering a shift.
Teacher Shift
A Reflection on Teaching in the Age of School Shootings and Violence
Get ready for a powerful and impactful episode! This week, Ali and JoDee are talking about the sensitive subjects of school shootings and violence in schools. Together, they will discuss how they’ve been impacted by these issues, the importance of including teachers in school safety, noticing warning signs and how to report them.
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Episode Transcriptions
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Ali 0:05
Teachers are natural innovators, entertainers and problem solvers. They dream of growing old into the profession, teaching their kids kids. But sometimes career goals shift or change, and that makes opportunities outside of the classroom seem intangible questioning who am I, if I'm not a teacher? I'm your host, Alexandra Simon.
JoDee 0:31
And I'm your co host, JoDee Scissors.
Ali 0:34
This is The Great Teacher Resignation.
We want our listeners to know that this episode is tagged as explicit because of the sensitive topics discussed. We want to give you a moment to hit pause if you have adults or children listening with you who could be impacted by these topics. The topics include school shootings and violence in schools. In 2018, Education Week started tracking US school shooting incidents. Since then there have been 167 such shootings. This year, 23 school shootings have resulted in injury or death since we recorded this message on May 24, 2023. We also want to recognize that one year ago today, 19 children and two adults were killed in a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. It was the deadliest school shooting in Texas history. JoDee, we've heard it from several of our guests that they didn't feel safe in their schools. And I think you and I have both started to dig deeper into school safety throughout our time as educators but also in the recent months since we've started the podcast. I'm wondering how has your understanding of this issue changed your perception of safety?
JoDee 1:57
It has definitely changed over time since I first started teaching. And it's definitely increased my level of anxiety, my level of depression about the state in which students and teachers live in when they are housed in schools. And we know that there are different angles of safety when it comes to students and teachers. There's physical violence, there's verbal assaults, all different kinds of angles. But this specific episode, you know, we're going to be talking about a topic that's hard to stomach, which is mass shootings, are a part of our culture now. They're a part of being in schools. And that's really a hard thing to swallow. And I think one of the main things that really has hit me hard lately is that living in DC, you get to develop relationships with some pretty unique people that have really unique jobs for our government or work for really unique institutions. And I have friends that have worked in war torn countries, that have worked on very serious social issues. And when I see the concern in their faces about the state in which our students and teachers live in right now, in the fear of mass shootings in schools. That is really scary because they've seen some horrible things. And when I started seeing that kind of result in their feelings towards, towards education right now, that was a really big red flag.
Ali 3:34
Absolutely. And I think when we hear these stories from other parents, other people in our communities about their fear, it makes me want to ask, are you afraid? Are you scared now? I mean, you're a mom also, in addition to being a former teacher.
JoDee 3:51
Oh, yeah, I'm definitely afraid. At the beginning of the year when the Covenant School in Tennessee had the mass shooting, you know, private school. I'm starting to have physical illness and reactions to what is happening. You start your career thinking about basic classroom management and safety like fire drills. I started teaching in Texas, so tornado drills were pretty common as well. And so over time, the drills evolved into hiding and seeking safety. And as mass shootings have increased, the fear in me increased. And when my daughter started going to school, it meant a lot because her safety is everything. And you as a teacher, your first goal is to keep your kids safe. That's like first and foremost. And so now we have these external factors that can prevent you from keeping that promise of making sure that 100% of students are safe every single day. So I feel quite a bit of fear. I don't know, how do you feel?
Ali 5:01
Well, my relationship and understanding of school shootings started when I was a student. I was between eighth and ninth grade, when I got cast in a show called Bang, Bang, You're Dead, which probably most people haven't heard about. But it's a one act play by William Master Simone. And it talks about three specific school shootings. And it's from the perpetrators perspective, you reflecting back on the lives that were lost. And I played one of those students, one of his closest friends who he murdered. So at a very young age, I knew about this world that was really just starting to become more prevalent. This was 2000. And so that kind of shaped, I guess, my, my youth. And moving into high school, I always took those things really seriously. If we ever had a lockdown drill at school, when I was a student, I took it super seriously. Because I think I understood the gravity of these things. And I really do. We talk a lot about arts, arts integration. And I think that that can have a profound impact on someone with something so heavy is communicated in a way that people can understand. But honestly, less than a decade later, from doing that show, I had my own classroom as a high school teacher. And the continued presence and increase in school shootings is something that 100% worried me as a teacher. In fact, some of my classmates in college knew that I was going to be a teacher. And they were like, I could never be a teacher. I'm too scared of something like this happening, a school shooting. But I continued on. And my second year of teaching, I remember that we had a lockdown, which we didn't know if it was a drill, or if it was real. You never, you know, they don't always plan those and that there's a reason for that. And it was probably one of the scariest days. It ended up being a real lockdown, because there was a crime that had been committed in the local neighborhood. The perpetrator had not been apprehended yet. They were reported to have a gun. Thankfully, everything turned out okay in that instance. But I mean, it was the real deal. And it was very, very scary. And I would say it was really one of the first times that I, you know, I knew that I was protecting these kids in my classroom. And I'm like a rule follower, for people who know me. So I always follow all of the rules. I take things super seriously. And I think, for our non teacher listeners, teachers take these, these things so seriously. When you hear the reporting of school shootings, the teachers, they are putting their lives at risk for their students. And we hear about the teachers that are injured. And so, you know, from my perspective, I was willing to go to bat for my students. To be there to protect them, but it's frightening. And, you know, when you talk about the safety scenarios in our school and what we would do, it's frightening. I'd say the most recent thing that really impacted me and my students was actually Parkland in 2018. This was very close to where I grew up, I grew up about 20 minutes away from Parkland. Someone that I knew their mom was working in the school office that day. And this actually impacted my students the most as well. So I had a group of students who, they were shocked after parkland. Because again, in Louisiana, where I was teaching at the time, it wasn't that far away. And actually got us to start talking about what I mentioned earlier, the safety scenarios. What would we do? I was coaching speech and debate and these kids were, they were asking like, well, where would we go if we were in your classroom? Like, what's the plan? Is it really best to stay in the classroom? And it's like, I'm answering these questions with 16-17 year olds, who know their stuff. I mean, they've researched this. And really, it's not just the teachers that are impacted. It's these young people. In fact, one student from the team, the speech and debate team actually worked on a bill in the Louisiana legislature with another group of students involved to seek and consider input from students for school crisis management and response plans. And that bill passed.
JoDee 9:03
Tha'ts great. Kudos to that student for advocacy. When we were at South By, I sat in on the how to prevent violence in school shootings, that was hosted by Sandy Hook Promise. And the panel of include Karen Fairley, who was from the Center for Safer Schools. And Nicole Hockley from Sandy Hook Promise. And they talked about a really tough topic. They outlined really important data. And they also made sure that the framework that they're creating includes teacher input. That teachers are part of the conversation. Because we know that a lot of the way that this topic has been politicized, excludes the person that is going to be managing a classroom, that's going to be in front of students, teaching them about protocols, keeping them safe, putting their life on the line to make sure that a child is safe. And so I really appreciated when they were talking, in that panel, that they made a point to say, like, we're including teachers in the conversation. And it would be great to see a student who is willing and able to handle such a hard topic, because you know, at a young age, that is a really heavy topic to take on. But there are those young advocates out there that take on really, really tough subjects. So yeah, and it sounds like you've had almost, I don't want to age you, but like, almost like 20 years of this being something you've had to consciously think about as a student or a teacher.
Ali 10:39
Yeah. I mean, it's sad, but it almost feels like it's become like, the fear of getting into a car accident, like you know that it can happen. And it's just out there. And I hate that it's normalized like that. It pains me. It hurts. It makes me sad and mad, and all of those things, because this shouldn't be the life that, that we're living in this country. And unfortunately, it is. I want to know, from your perspective, when did these types of precautions start taking place in your career?
JoDee 11:09
From the first time I started teaching. It's been a harsh reality that we've all had to face for a really long time. I think the difference between you and I is that I worked with primary grades. So you're with teenagers, and I'm with young children. I didn't teach anyone older than 11, for the most part. Like I had some sprinkles of middle and high school in there. But for the most part, I was a primary teacher. So you're going to work and you see these fresh, plump, beautiful faces that you know, young children have, and they're full of hope, and joy, and potential. And then in you know, the next frame, you're sitting in front of those same children with that same hope. And you're talking about prevention. What are the options when there is an active shooter on site? And that's really gut wrenching to be in front of children, teaching them and seeing the light on their faces when they are learning and seeing the horror on their faces, when you are talking about an active shooter, and what are the scenarios that we have to consider. And what do we have to do in a split second to protect ourselves? I mean, I don't know if other teachers have this same feeling. But when I had to do active shooter training, I had immense feelings of concern and hopelessness. But in the same moment, I was feeling lionhearted because I was gonna do anything in my power keep them out of any danger, and put up the best fight I possibly could. So those range of emotions are really unsettling because you, you never want to feel vulnerable in that regard when it comes to safety in front of students. Like you need to be like, fierce and know that like, I've got your back no matter what. And I remember this one time I was going through the procedures, and I'm not going to mention the procedures because I don't think we need to educate perpetrators. Teachers know the procedures, and we'll leave it at that. But one of my students raised her hand, and she said, But what about you? So I'm telling them what they need to be doing. And then in that equation, and whatever presentation the district gave us, I wasn't in the equation. And so she looked at me and she said, What about you? And I just looked at her and looked at everyone and I said, you don't worry about me. You listen to my instructions, and you do what you're supposed to be doing. Don't worry about me. I didn't want anyone in that moment to feel like they needed to watch me or protect me, because that was my job to do that for them.
Ali 14:02
At any point in time. Did you rethink For your own safety and continued work in the classroom,
JoDee 14:08
I think just from past episodes, everyone can learn why I left the classroom and safety was not the catalyst. And so I wouldn't say that was the reason to stop continuing my work. But when we did have these trainings with district officials or the police that would come to our school and train, I was that teacher that pressed hard on the topic. I was the teacher that was asking the uncomfortable questions. I didn't want to be afraid to ask those hard questions. I wanted to make sure that any fears or anxieties, I wasn't holding back, and I was asking those so they could possibly get answered.
Ali 15:01
And I think that makes a lot of sense. Because I've worked in other organizations that have this type of training outside of education in the nonprofit world, and the people that put those things together, they're usually not working in those roles, right? So when you have someone who's training a school on safety, or giving the procedures, they usually have not been a classroom teacher for 10 years. And so they might not think of those vulnerabilities like you might think of as a teacher. So, you know, it really should be this open discussion about how to make things as safe as possible. So I'm really glad that you were able to speak up because you felt confident and that you had the tenure. And that you weren't worried about any repercussions that might come of that. And, you know, I agree with you, school safety was not really a factor in my decision from leaving. My departure, as our listeners know, was, was unplanned and unexpected. And, honestly, it wasn't a factor of me leaving, but it is something that plagues me every day as a parent. And it's, it's just something that's on my mind and hard to deal with.
JoDee 15:54
Like, if I was still in the classroom right now, I don't know if my answer would be the same than it was, you know, three and a half years ago, when I left. It probably would be a pretty deep factor in leaving considering that mass shootings are increasing. We know that it's gonna happen again. And there is not enough being done. It's scary.
Ali 16:14
Absolutely. And I think, too, it's are you in a school or a district that is prioritizing this? That has the adequate training that has the structures in place like physical structures, the buildings, the code? I mean, we know that there are vulnerabilities. And so I think, for me, if I was still teaching, that would probably be the top thing. Am I in a place where I feel supported to be able to do my job and protect myself and my students? So you know, we heard from other teachers that we've interviewed that their school didn't, wasn't taking certain things seriously. And so I think that to me, would be the main thing, because we know it can vary school to school. But yeah, it's a huge, a huge concern for me just as a parent. So I imagine if I was still teaching that would keep me up at night for sure. I know, JoDee, and our listeners might not know, but you're from Texas. And Texas, this has been a very difficult last year for them. For everybody who resides in that state. I'm wondering how have the Uvalde and Allen shootings impacted you personally?
JoDee 17:18
Well, someone recently said to me, that, you know, these mass shootings must really be hitting home for you because of Ulvade and the mall shooting in Allen, Texas. Which was the mall that my family's shopped at, for the last 20 years. My brother lives a few miles from there. So yeah, they are close to home. But my response to that person was, I didn't need it to hit close to home for it to be of significance. I was a teacher for 13 years. Before that, I was a student. I spent most of my life inside of schools. Schools are home to me. It doesn't matter the grade the community or the state, if I walk into a school of any kind, it feels like home. And so schools are second homes to our children. So any shooting, any violence, anything that upends their safety should impact all of us. And it shouldn't have to happen close to home for us to understand it, or empathize, or take action. This should be something that we should care about, because these are children. I just want people to think about that. Don't wait until it happens close to home. It matters now. Every child matters now. And we have to take it seriously.
Ali 18:40
We do. And we know that things are not getting better right now. I feel what you're saying. The sense of urgency is not missed on me that this is a pivotal moment. And it continues to be pivotal because we keep thinking that like this one shooting that happens is going to change everything. And it's not unfortunately. I'm not from Texas, but I will say that both of those shootings impacted me greatly. It's not okay that families have to worry every day about whether their children or loved ones will come home from school or from the mall. We shouldn't have that on top of everything else.
JoDee 19:16
I wanted to go back, just a minute, to kind of talk about some of the things that I did learn in the How to Prevent School Violence and School Shootings from when we were at South By. And in the panel, Nicole and Karen gave some really important statistics. They said that gun violence is the leading cause of death in children, and that suicide is second. And that's really unsettling. And we shouldn't have this mindset of when am I next. When I was in the classroom, it did start to feel like is our school next. And that is really, really tough. If you really unpack that. Like, that's not how you should live out your life. That's not how our children should be living out their life. And they pointed out that four out five shooters tell someone about their plans, 93% planned in advance, and that every single documented case had warning signs.
Ali 20:20
And I don't want to not touch on what you just said, because it is an important component that there are warning signs. There are people in the lives of these perpetrators who may have even tried to stop them. There have been, you know, teachers who have spoken up. Sometimes the warning signs are taken seriously. Sometimes they're not. It's really a case by case school by school, you know, issue. But absolutely, I mean, we talk about warning signs in some other episodes too, in terms of mental health. Those are similar. You know, you notice changes in behavior of people. And I'm not an expert. And we do want to bring on experts in future episodes. But we want to make sure that as teachers that we're doing the best that we can to stop anything like this from happening, but it's unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be even when those warning signs are seen or when they're reported. It's still happening. So there's a lot of systems that do need to be reframed, reviewed. There are some that are working though.
JoDee 21:25
I did want to mention that Sandy Hook Promise does have the say something anonymous. It's like a holistic solution to school violence prevention, where you can report someone or you can report yourself. And they're seeing success in that reporting system because they're able to intervene or provide an intervention for someone who is thinking about harming themselves or harming others. And they mentioned that self harm is starting to happen at a younger and younger age. And so as we see younger people unwell, that increases risk to themselves and to others.
Ali 22:11
Turning it back to teachers and education. We know that education continues to see poor retention levels. So when we're looking at the school and mass shooting topics of battles between mental health access and gun access, these are debated. To me, it feels like this is becoming a partisan issue, but solutions to safety of all people in schools who are at risk every minute of every day. These issues should not be partisan, they should be nonpartisan. And I really believe that we must continue to protect the second homes that you talked about JoDee, of our youth and the educators and support staff that have dedicated their careers, their lives, to enriching the lives of their students. So if we want to keep them in their careers, which we do. We want to keep educators who love the profession in their careers. We have to offer more support here. And understanding school safety is a topic that we will continue to unpack next time with the supportive teachers and experts. For our listeners, we do want to encourage you to check out the Take Action page from Sandy Hook Promise. There opportunities to volunteer, donate, take action or spread the word. And the
page is linked in our show notes.
Ali 23:26
If you liked The Great Teacher Resignation, give us a five star rating and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music and Audible. Today's episode was written and recorded by me, Alexandra Simon, and my co host JoDee Scissors. Executive produced by Teacher Brain. Produced and edited by Emily Porter. Original Music: Emoji by Tubebackr. Special thanks to our sponsor, Paper Planes Ed.